Soundings....
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For today's weather discussion head to: New Zealand Weather & Climate
These topics are a read-only archive and may be subject to out-of-date information.
For today's weather discussion head to: New Zealand Weather & Climate
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Soundings....
I've been doing some searching on soundings to figure out what they are etc, and came across this site:
http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/nz.html
If you select your options at the top, type in a code of 94998 and hit enter, you get the same station as the above link, but (to me and my limited experience) gives a slightly clearer picture, and even animates it if you want.
Of course, now I gotta figure out how to interpret it
Jon
http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/nz.html
If you select your options at the top, type in a code of 94998 and hit enter, you get the same station as the above link, but (to me and my limited experience) gives a slightly clearer picture, and even animates it if you want.
Of course, now I gotta figure out how to interpret it
Jon
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http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html
I sometimes use that URL to look at historical skew-t. About 8 years of history available.
A sounding is a temperature/moisture/pressure/wind profile of the atmosphere which is done twice daily. 0000Z and 1200Z. Instrumentation is attached to hydrogen balloon and the balloon can rise to altitudes of over 20000m. The instrument transmits a set of data every minute or so.
A skew-t diagram is a formulated chart in which the results of the sounding are plotted. The temperature and dewpoint readings are plotted on pressure levels. Right hand plotted line on the chart is temperature, left hand is dewpoint temperature which correlates to moisture. .
On a skew-t there is a third line plotted, the Saturated Adiatic Lapse Rate.
This is the profile a parcel of air would take if it were lfted from the surface.
I sometimes use that URL to look at historical skew-t. About 8 years of history available.
A sounding is a temperature/moisture/pressure/wind profile of the atmosphere which is done twice daily. 0000Z and 1200Z. Instrumentation is attached to hydrogen balloon and the balloon can rise to altitudes of over 20000m. The instrument transmits a set of data every minute or so.
A skew-t diagram is a formulated chart in which the results of the sounding are plotted. The temperature and dewpoint readings are plotted on pressure levels. Right hand plotted line on the chart is temperature, left hand is dewpoint temperature which correlates to moisture. .
On a skew-t there is a third line plotted, the Saturated Adiatic Lapse Rate.
This is the profile a parcel of air would take if it were lfted from the surface.
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Unfortunately there is only 3 sites in NZ where skew-t's are plotted. Invercargill, Paraparaumu and Whenuapai, so they don't do one for Chch.
I've saved the midnight (for that night) skew-t's if you want a look at them from Invercargill and Paraparaumu sites.
There is however the READY modeled skew-t's which you can have for Chch, and they have an archived database so you can pluck out certain ones from your previous favourite storms. Here's the midnight one for Chch on the 23rd. I've re-done it at the surface to show the actual temp and dewpoint conditions relative to when the change came through, the ones that come out of the model always seem to under forecast but at times get things right. They do ok for the upper temps though. I've also added the SALR line (grey one).
Actually, just rethinking that. The models in this instance have done ok for the surface temps seen as this is a midnight skew-t and temps were low at that time at the surface, but I can't grab one for 11:00pm just before the storm hit so this one is the closest I can find to represent the conditions. It should represent things pretty good with how I've modified it at the surface though.
I'll post the original skew-t in a post below this one.
I've saved the midnight (for that night) skew-t's if you want a look at them from Invercargill and Paraparaumu sites.
There is however the READY modeled skew-t's which you can have for Chch, and they have an archived database so you can pluck out certain ones from your previous favourite storms. Here's the midnight one for Chch on the 23rd. I've re-done it at the surface to show the actual temp and dewpoint conditions relative to when the change came through, the ones that come out of the model always seem to under forecast but at times get things right. They do ok for the upper temps though. I've also added the SALR line (grey one).
Actually, just rethinking that. The models in this instance have done ok for the surface temps seen as this is a midnight skew-t and temps were low at that time at the surface, but I can't grab one for 11:00pm just before the storm hit so this one is the closest I can find to represent the conditions. It should represent things pretty good with how I've modified it at the surface though.
I'll post the original skew-t in a post below this one.
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Last edited by Thunder on Wed 27/04/2005 12:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Here it is, should've saved the above as a GIF, oh well. Here it is anyway!
If you open both attachements you can flick between them in your task bar and it almost looks like a little animation, the other saved as GIF would've made it almost seemless but heh...not bad.
Cheers
If you open both attachements you can flick between them in your task bar and it almost looks like a little animation, the other saved as GIF would've made it almost seemless but heh...not bad.
Cheers
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Good stuff Aaron. My thought on the CH skew-t is that the actual airmass was a colder than your chart shows. I'm suggesting 500mb temperature down to -34C. This was verified by both the Invercargill and Paraparam sounding.
For anyone interested in convection and the skew-t, a few more basic notes.
The plotted SALR line is based on surface temperature and dewpoint at time of sounding. This will change as the surface temperature and dewpoint changes. When looking at a skew-t you have to interpret this change.
If the SALR is to the right of the observed temperature plot, the air is unstable. This is because a parcel of air lifted off the surface will always be warmer than its surounding airmass and keep rising.
Typically though, the SALR is to the left of the temperature plot (cooler) so the air is stable.
Conditions that can cause the SALR to become warmer than the observed temperature plot (turn air unstable) are surface heating in summer, increases in surface humdity, and cooling of the upper atmosphere.
For anyone interested in convection and the skew-t, a few more basic notes.
The plotted SALR line is based on surface temperature and dewpoint at time of sounding. This will change as the surface temperature and dewpoint changes. When looking at a skew-t you have to interpret this change.
If the SALR is to the right of the observed temperature plot, the air is unstable. This is because a parcel of air lifted off the surface will always be warmer than its surounding airmass and keep rising.
Typically though, the SALR is to the left of the temperature plot (cooler) so the air is stable.
Conditions that can cause the SALR to become warmer than the observed temperature plot (turn air unstable) are surface heating in summer, increases in surface humdity, and cooling of the upper atmosphere.
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More more more... no seriously, excellent stuff guys. It's good to get an explanation in "your words". Heaps of info out there but it's not always to the point etc.
There is no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes.
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Good stuff Steven! Some great info there.
At the time of the change I think the upper air was around what the modeled skew-t suggests but yes, later on into the night it got much colder. The next day we still had isolated airmass thunderstorms when the really cold air was over us then leaving in the afternoon.
We can assume LI's of -2 to -3 from my corrected skew-t above, not bad. Of course thats at the 500mb level where LI's are measured, if we wanted to show the LI max at a particular level of our choosing (700mb looks good in this case) we would have -5 to -7 LI's! But that's not how LI's are done so we can't really use that. In a sense this show's how 500mb LI's aren't always reliable but definately something to check.
CAPE would've been around the 1000 mark, maybe 1500 (I'm just guestimating here through looking at previous skew-t's from the past). Hence a really good storm and some good sized hail!!
Even though the skew t shows storm height of around 7km (420mb where the grey line (TAPP line) and the red temp line intersect), which we know is ok for Ts. I'd say they would've pushed up to around 8km in height, maybe 8.5km if updrafts were strong enough.
Here's some more info from Anthony Cornelius's downunderchase.com website which is really usefull:
Bachh!
Cheers.
At the time of the change I think the upper air was around what the modeled skew-t suggests but yes, later on into the night it got much colder. The next day we still had isolated airmass thunderstorms when the really cold air was over us then leaving in the afternoon.
We can assume LI's of -2 to -3 from my corrected skew-t above, not bad. Of course thats at the 500mb level where LI's are measured, if we wanted to show the LI max at a particular level of our choosing (700mb looks good in this case) we would have -5 to -7 LI's! But that's not how LI's are done so we can't really use that. In a sense this show's how 500mb LI's aren't always reliable but definately something to check.
CAPE would've been around the 1000 mark, maybe 1500 (I'm just guestimating here through looking at previous skew-t's from the past). Hence a really good storm and some good sized hail!!
Even though the skew t shows storm height of around 7km (420mb where the grey line (TAPP line) and the red temp line intersect), which we know is ok for Ts. I'd say they would've pushed up to around 8km in height, maybe 8.5km if updrafts were strong enough.
Here's some more info from Anthony Cornelius's downunderchase.com website which is really usefull:
In my post above I was reffering to the TAPP (grey one that curves up) line as the SALR line, sorry! TAPP stands for the "Theoretical Air Parcel Plot" line. The SALR lines are the same looking type of ones that are evenly spaced to the right, un-abbreviated it stands for the "Saturated Adiabatic Lapse Rate" lines.When an updraft, or a parcel of air that is ascending reaches a stable layer (eg, a cap), it begins to slow down, but it doesn’t stop immediately. A useful analogy that can be used, is the example of a ball rolling down a hill. The steep the decline (the warmer the parcel of air is to its surroundings), the faster the ball will roll down the hill (the faster the parcel of air will ascend). The opposite can occur when a ball rolling down a slope, reaches an incline. What happens when a ball rolling down a slope suddenly reaches an incline? Will it stop immediately? It certainly will not! It’ll roll up the incline and slow down. The steeper the incline, the faster the ball will slow down (the faster a parcel of air will reduce its speed), and if a ball is placed at the bottom of an incline, it simply won’t move at all (a parcel of air will not ascend, therefore is stable).
The small cap that can be seen on the sounding will easily be ‘broken’ from the momentum of air gained from below it, where it’s slightly unstable. Basically, this stable layer is so negligible, that in our rolling ball example, this will be seen as a very small incline on a declining slope. The ball would have been given an opportunity to already gain speed, and will slow down at the incline, but still proceed over the incline, and will travel down the rest of the slope without hinderence. Similarly, our parcel of air that is rising in the atmosphere that this skew-T represents will see this cap as a small hindrance, and will slow down at this point, and continue rising. For this reason, small caps in the lower atmosphere are easily broken – often without any other assistance.
Bachh!
Cheers.
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BlueSkies were onto it especially "WX Girl" who accurately forecasted thunderstorms for that dayNZstorm wrote:
Met Service failed to predict that severe weather event though they have improved there convective forecasting considerably since then. I can't see them missing an event like that gain.
JohnGaul
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Blue Skies Weather were onto it especially "WX Girl" on this forum who accuarately forecasted thunderstorms for that dayNZstorm wrote:
Met Service failed to predict that severe weather event though they have improved there convective forecasting considerably since then. I can't see them missing an event like that gain.
JohnGaul
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If forecasters put out predictions of thunder every time the potential for it was discussed on here every second forecast would be thunderous.NZstorm wrote:From memory we were discussing the potential for thunder a few days before the event on the old NZ Weather Forum.
And Gary, I can assure you, wxgirl is not Toni Marsh. Neither am I.
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For the 23rd April I've now come out with figures of around:
CAPE = 400
LI = 0.6
LI's as I mentioned previously were low due to the nature of this setup so that can be expected.
Maybe the upper air could've been a bit colder at this time? I can't imagine it being much colder though, yes -34 @ 500mb temps did float over the next day but at the time of the change in chch on Sat night I don't think it would've gone below -29/-30 @ 500mb at the most.
All that hail! All that lightning! Hmmm.......If I got figures of what I've just plucked out on this page now a day before hand I would'nt have thought hail could get that big etc, I'm missing something.
I would've said hail though a day before hand definately so that's partly right I guess.
Cheers.
CAPE = 400
LI = 0.6
LI's as I mentioned previously were low due to the nature of this setup so that can be expected.
Maybe the upper air could've been a bit colder at this time? I can't imagine it being much colder though, yes -34 @ 500mb temps did float over the next day but at the time of the change in chch on Sat night I don't think it would've gone below -29/-30 @ 500mb at the most.
All that hail! All that lightning! Hmmm.......If I got figures of what I've just plucked out on this page now a day before hand I would'nt have thought hail could get that big etc, I'm missing something.
I would've said hail though a day before hand definately so that's partly right I guess.
Cheers.
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Ahh! I think I've found that 'missing something', duh. I should know this. SST were around 13 to 14 degrees when this change arrived, that looks a bit better than 9 piddly degrees!
So Li's on the 23rd could've been around -2.5 to -3. I'll have to do some better analysis but it helps to explain a few things.
Cheers.
So Li's on the 23rd could've been around -2.5 to -3. I'll have to do some better analysis but it helps to explain a few things.
Cheers.