"Swells of 14 metres"

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"Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Myself »

All weekend the media have been bleating on about "swells of 14 metres" in Cook Strait. This appears to be the new sibling of weather bombs and mini-tornadoes.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/high-winds ... gs-2753961
"All Bluebridge and Interislander ferry sailings have been cancelled as gusts of up to 140 kilometres per hour have recorded with swells of 14 metres in the Cook Strait, leaving nearly 1500 people stranded in Wellington or Picton."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/we ... er-lingers
"Winds gusting to 60 knots (110 kmh) and swells of up to 14 metres in Cook Strait prevented ferries from sailing on Saturday"

http://www.weatherwatch.co.nz/content/rain-rain-go-away
"Swells of up to 14 metres (higher than street lights) hit Cook Strait during the storm"

It can be argued that we cannot blame the above journalists for meteorological ignorance....but they can be blamed for not checking their facts. It's disappointing that this mistake was published once...and now it seems to be "doing the rounds". The result is that a great many people in Wellington likely now believe that there really were 14 metre swells in Cook Strait. Excuse my language, but holy ****. 14 metre swells would be utterly catastrophic.

The actual swell was probably more like 5 or 6 metres, which is bloody big in itself. The 14 metres, I strongly suspect was ONE wave, which was the COMBINED height of the background swell and locally generated wind waves.

I don't want to hear any arguments about how this is "pedantic" or "arguing about semantics". I don't want any ignorance here. There is a world of difference between 14 metre swells and one single combined wave of 14 metres. A world of difference. And now that difference has been eroded, thanks to shonky journalists not making absolutely certain that they have a bloody clue what they are talking about, or that they have got their facts right.

It's a concern that people may now have become "de-sensitised" to forecast swells.
For example, current Cook Strait marine forecast:

Forecast
*STORM WARNING IN FORCE*
Southeast 50 knots, easing to 40 knots this evening and to 30 knots Tuesday evening. High sea easing. Southerly swell 2 metres, easing. Poor visibility in occasional rain.


Now, it's only talking about 2 metre swells. So if people have heard of 14 metre swells reported this weekend, they'll think that the conditions probably ain't that bad today. Nevermind that the forecast paints a horrible picture when you consider the wind, and the sort of wind waves that will be generated.


I'd better stop here. Journalists and the media do make me quite angry at times.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Razor »

Well said, round of applause.

Some 'journalists' appear lazy and really need to research their facts. The age of internet news sites is dumbing down society with half truths to the point where its hard to take anyone seriously.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

I agree with myself
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by jrj »

Suggest that they were in fact 7 metre swells, which would effectively measure 14 metres between troughs and peaks :wave:

Still big though eh? :eek:
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Philip Duncan »

Actually I agree with you too "Myself" and will be editing that story (which came through to us from NewstalkZB). Our travel story last Friday alerted people to swells "around 5 metres" out in Cook Strait... I was interviewed in the weekend about the 14 metre waves and I said "The swells are more like 5 metres...you're quoting it in feet, they're definitely not 14 metres".

Have ammeded the ZB story and alerted the newsroom too.

With the internet some stories are automatically uploaded...so one misprint at the beginning can be copied over and over again as it's sent to various sites.

Cheers
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Razor »

Good work Phil- keeping up the good fight
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Philip Duncan »

I feel bad that the misprint went on to our site to be honest. I usually proof most stories but some slip through.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by TonyT »

If you check the Ecan wave buoy off Banks Peninsula

http://www.ecan.govt.nz/Our+Environment ... height.htm

You can see significant wave heights were 5-6m at times over the last week, with maximum waves in excess of 11m. So a 14m wave is not inconceivable. (There is a wave buoy off Baring Head, but I dont know if the data is available online).

This really comes back to the "gusts to gale force" argument we have had many times before (and I heard the weather-droid on TV1 using that very expression just a few nights ago). The generally accepted measure of swell waves is the "significant wave height" which is the average of the top 33% of waves in the sample. And that figure will never be as exciting as the maximum wave height measured, in just the same way as "gales" is so good a word for the media to use, that its better to use it out of context than not use it at all. So 14m sounds so much better than 6m, even if its being used out of context (or at least in a contrary way).
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by southernthrash »

With swells to, you have to remember that localised waves can become much larger (ie over reefs, off points, etc). I'm not as familiar with Cook Straight, but I know what conditions it takes to get localised areas of waves in excess of 10 m in certain areas around Foveaux Straight/the south coast...

And yea, like Tony says, the wav swell data is recorded can filter out the largest waves, but what is the media going to want to report?

That said, such swells are hardly newsworthy down here, where forcast swells are frequently in the 4 - 6 m range.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by waterboy »

Yeah but 14 m swells looks cooler and gets more people to click on there sites which are full of adds! They need to attract lots of clicks becoz it makes them lots of $$$! :lol:
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Philip Duncan »

Journalists don't lie to get clicks to sites - they're not motivated by $ and click throughs.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

normally wellington folk dont get excited until the cook straight wave heights are 8 to 10m I thought?

maybe they were refering to the wave height as it peaked up coming into shore (where it can double in height)?
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by southernthrash »

philip duncan wrote:Journalists don't lie to get clicks to sites - they're not motivated by $ and click throughs.

Really?
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Lacertae »

southernthrash wrote:
philip duncan wrote:Journalists don't lie to get clicks to sites - they're not motivated by $ and click throughs.

Really?
That was a bit under the belt southerntrash ...
I do not have a great love for certain journalists, but I wouldn't put them all in the same (rubbish) bag. ;)

About swells, knowing the conditions on the Cook Straight and knowing the highest wave ever recorded was almost 30m high, you can say that 14m is not so much finally ! ;) ;)
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Philip Duncan »

Journalists are like any other profession - you have juniors and seniors. Sometimes the junior writers misquote or get confused by the info you give them. But whether some might be a bit ignorant I can say most of the journalists I've dealt with through our company and with opposition news rooms with TV and print have, for the most part, been decent people trying to cover a weather event. They are far removed from money making - most wouldnt even know how many clicks their stories get or have any idea (or interest) in website ratings. Believe me, I struggle to even get them to promote my website in stories as they don't want to place advertising within news stories as some see that as unethical.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by southernthrash »

Yea that's fair enough from the Journo's perspective Philip, but I think most of us know that their bosses are driven by advertising dollars these days, whether it be colour double spread in the paper, a banner ad on stuff, or a 30 second ad slotted in just before the sports news on telly, the stories surrounding those ads are what generates reader/viewer interest, which is how advertising rates are justified.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by waterboy »

What do journolists know about the weather??? Shouldnt the people on those sites be trained proffesional meterologists??? It makes me think that any weather web site that doesnt have real scientists is just one fishing for ad money and so they aren't going to worry to much about accuracy. What they will worry about is yelling about exciting weather news to get people to look at there sites!
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Lacertae »

So waterboy, following your way to see things, only experts can talk about something ?
Well my friends and dear fellow weather watchers, I'm afraid we (almost) all have to shut up from now on about what we don't master, weither we're journalists or not ...

Hail Waterboy the First, King of the Expert-Only-Can-Speak kingdom !

:rolleyes:

P.S. : sorry waterboy, nothing personnal here but the conversation is taking a dangerous slope and it makes me sarky ...
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by southernthrash »

waterboy wrote:What do journolists know about the weather??? Shouldnt the people on those sites be trained proffesional meterologists??? It makes me think that any weather web site that doesnt have real scientists is just one fishing for ad money and so they aren't going to worry to much about accuracy. What they will worry about is yelling about exciting weather news to get people to look at there sites!
Due to your own aforementioned opinion, could you please stop discussing the weather? kthxbi.
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by waterboy »

Theres a big difference between talking about the weather with other people who arent weather scientists on line and having a web site full of ad links and calling your self a meteorological service and trying to get yourself promoted all over the news and web sites. So I never said people who arent trained experts shouldnt talk about the weather I said that they probably shouldnt pretend to be trained and qualafied meteorologists when they try to sell there weather site news.

We have laws which stop un trained people doing services they arent trained and qualafied to be doing for a reason. Yeah sure there is no law saying you cant sell your weather forcasts even if you arent a tarined meteorolgist but I think I know what you gusy would think about people who did that even if it isn' t illegal. :lol:

I can talk about stuff Im not qualafied to do when I am with my mates if they are not qualafied to but if I talk shite about something they are experts about I know what they will say to me! :lol: Same as what I say to people who try to lecture me about stuff I know about and they dont!!! :lol:
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by TonyT »

We're well off topic here folks, I can see this thread getting locked soon...
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by waterboy »

Sure well I was just defending my opinion. Good night! :crazy:
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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by NZ Thunderstorm Soc »

What on earth is a tarined meteorlolgist? :?:

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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by Michael »

a meteor lol (get the) gist.
NZ Thunderstorm Soc wrote:What on earth is a tarined meteorlolgist? :?:

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Re: "Swells of 14 metres"

Unread post by NZ Thunderstorm Soc »

Michael wrote:a meteor lol (get the) gist.

lots of love <3

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