Basic Automatic Weather Station

[tgsnoopy]

Ok, ok of curiosity, I see some of you have some fantastic websites giving all sorts of detailed analysis of the weather.

I'm wondering how much $$$ is required to establish something like that?

I'm a Radio Technician by Trade and our Radio Site includes a few Access Points used for linking networks, a DSL Net connection is therefore accessable at the site (If you are from Tauranga area, don't bother, you'd need a recognised MAC address).

What I'm wondering is if putting a weather station of sorts up at the radio site is going to be an option, and if so how much it will cost. There is a PC running XP Pro (and other applications of course) at the site.

The site (Kopukairua) S 37° 43.865 E 176° 14.137 (U14 954806) is at an altitude of about 260m over looking the greater Western BOP (Welcome Bay hills, between Tauranga & Te Puke). It's not quite at the summit, that location being occupied by a 48m mast belonging to BCL (read TV & Radio stations etc). Our site has a 12m Mast (Communications & one FM Radio station).

We will soon be rigging in some additional feeder cables, it would be a good chance to include an additional cable(s) for a weather station. I doubt I'll presently be able to find funds to do something, but I'm considering adding cables for it in case we decide to add something later.

Any thoughts from those who have been down this path before? I'm just thinking of a future project.

At least this topic might spur thoughts others may have too

[ricky]

Hi from another tech!

I'm sure people will have some recommendations for stations, software etc but I'd say put in maybe 3 or 4 runs of screened cat5 STP.. that would handle pretty much anything available.. how bout a web cam up there? lightning detector? ok I'm getting a bit carried away now maybe lol

[Skywatcher]

Dick Smith used to sell a station which was very popular for about $500 and you could still get them from the US after they were discontinued here. Try a search on the forum for WM918.

The La Crosse WS2310 was also recommended but I don't see it at http://www.scientificsales.co.nz/catalog/ - they have other models now.

There are quite a few software options available but Weather Display is probably the most popular from what I've seen - http://www.weather-display.com/

Yeah, webcam sounds like a good idea .... you can leave the lightning detector until next year

[tgsnoopy]

Well, there is already a camera up there! It switches between inside the radio site & outside to observe actions of any visitors/vandals. I used the old 2.4GHz linking dish and an inexpensive 2.4GHz video transmitter, the cameras are simple cheap fixed CCD cameras and a simple switching circuit. The camera switching can be remote controlled too. Unfrtunately it isn't accessible via the net, or much use for watching the weather

I know other Tech's will now be thinking ok, they are using 5.8GHz Access Points

As for STP Cat 5 cable that would be suitable for running up the mast, I can't say I've enountered any that would last long in that enviroment. It's probably available, but I haven't had a need to source any yet. Geepers, I bet it's expensive.

I'll start looking into the budget to see if I can afford a simple station at some stage in the future.

As for other options, we have to walk before we can run... all in good time, as budget allows, all manner of things are possible!

[Gary Roberts]

Our remote, solar-powered station costs can be broken down as follows (excluding labor):

WM-918: $449
mini-ITX PC: $300 (approx)
PV Panels: $1700
30A Solar Regulator: $320
Batteries: $264
WLAN: $850 (approx)
Sundries: $500 (approx)

Total: $4383.00

I'm a little hazy on some costs, since many components were purchased some time back. I'm tempted to round it up to an even $4.5k to be safe.

On the other hand the last two WM-918's we bought I think only cost us $200-250 each.

The mini-ITX PC is a VIA Eden 533MHz model, with 512 MB RAM and a 2.5" HDD. It utilises a PW60 12V DC-DC PSU.

We used to run Win2k, but Windows is simply too unreliable for remote stations (it's a long way to go just to reboot a hung OS), so we switched to Linux. Sadly that meant abandoning FreeWX, which we found to be the best and most reliable weather software for Windows. We now run wx200d, which is also excellent, on the WM-918 stations, and Meteo on the Davis.

The PV panels are 80W models, and we use 24 x 12V 7Ah gelcells. We could have used one or two high capacity deep-cycle batteries instead, but the gelcells are cheap ($11 each) and together are still lighter and more compact than deep-cycle batteries (they have to fit within the enclosure).

The system in total draws 0.9-1.0A constant (after booting up, etc), while the PV panels together input up to 10A in full sun, so we get at least five days before the regulator automatically shuts the system down at 50% capacity in the event of incredibly lousy weather or a week-long solar eclipse! We've never come close to that yet.

The WLAN gear is all 802.11b, and comprises a WAP, a PCI card (for the station end) and two 20 dB gain Yagi antennae. The distance from station to office is 13 km. It uploads to the Internet via ADSL at the office end.

Sundries are 6 and 10mm² cabling (expensive!), and materials used for the construction of the Stevenson Screen.

This is one of three we operate. A Davis Vantage Pro Plus station is used with one of the others. Those are expensive stations, but I can't say it performs any better than the cheap little WM-918s to be honest.

I guess I should add that these stations also do double duty as "emergency" general use computers.

[03Stormchaser]

The program you use is also important and how you want it displayed online (I presume you do)

Im unsure on what Jeffs runs but his weather page would be one of the best I have ever seen (also Gary's), ever easy to ready, isnt cluttered up with rubbish.

the only one thing I would like to see on Jeffs is a dew point reading, Are you planning on putting one up on your page Jeff??

[Gary Roberts]

...Jeffs...weather page would be one of the best I have ever seen (also Gary's), ever easy to ready, isnt cluttered up with rubbish.

That (clarity and ease-of-use) to me is the most important part. It was why we liked FreeWX so much, and why we continue using Andy Keir's page templates.

I've been to some sites based on other apps which take forever to load, and even longer is spent just trying to find the damn data you're looking for, and I usually give up in despair and don't go back.

Just present the data cleanly and clearly. That's all people want to see. The data. Or at least, that's my opinion.

[Manukau heads obs]

with weather display, you can completly customise your web site with custom tags and have it exactly the way you want it
here is an example:
http://www.jbest.net/weather/index.aspx
which uses XML
i recommend to use a Davis WMII cables station (i have here all the stations available, so i know about them all (strengths and weakenses)

[NZstorm]

How did the UK promotion go Brian?

[Manukau heads obs]

Hi
here goes:
it all went really well. Got my picture taken with Micahel Fish, who reitred last year from 23 years of presenting the weather on BBC in the UK (he is a meterlogist). the uK weather shop is like heaven for a weather enthusiast. Every kind of weather instruments all around you!
I had use of a lap top and wireless connection....and was able to keep an eye on things here...including wathcing the kids catch the school bus on my live streaming web cam , LOL
At first the weather there was cold and foggy, cold air from europe coming across the english channel
then we hired a car and drove the length of england. the midlands area had a good westerly lee trough wind one day (in behind the welsh hills the midlands are)
we stayed with other users of weather display in the uK, and got to eat local foods like black pudding and haggish,a full monty fried english breakfast , and drank local beer like, as rare as a hens tooth, and got to ride the faster and steepest roller coaster in europe, at blackpool 9and there was snow showers that day too)
the lakedistrict was really nice, and some half decent rain there....otherwise eastern enlgand just has drealy dull weather with some sipy rain that does not amount to much
a bit like southland i guess
the quick cat ferry across to ireland was great...we struck some big atlantic rollers...and because we were going so fast, and made for a great ride!

we got struck a beefy squall line in ireland that went from horizon to horizon...
and then it rained for 3 days straight at one stage too (40 to 50mm)
we struck heavy snow/sleet showers in the western part of north of ireland (donegal)....and its spring there...hate to see what the winter would be like!
55oN they are there

then from there to germany...and a stop in london (heathrow), flew through a big cb there, good lurching...
they gave me a compass too at the weather shop,,,havign the sun int he wrong sky and going the wrong way is confusing!!

rain first day in germany
800mm per annum in hhe central/east rhine valley (where they gorw grapes), but the hills either side climb in rainfall, up to 2000mm
tehy can get some sever weather in germany soutehrn area...the mediteranean sea is not all that far away, so good soruce of warm moist air, and then you have the much colder baltic sea to the north of germany, and only flat ground in its way....
i was shown golf ball sized hail stones that was kep in a freezer by Florian...

stopped in dubai on the way back....39oC there! (humidity about 10% i think, but still felt reasonably humid)
one morning, after cloud ovrnight, it was 30oC at 6am
that was a shock from the uK where it harldy went over 10oC

going over from here, we had a very long night and a perpertual sunrise, as you are flying at half the speed the earth is spinning....on the way back, you get a day and a night in only 12 hours!
summatara showed us some really azamzing lightning storms, reaching way up to 35,000 feet...


here you can see my ambling posts:
http://www.weather-watch.com/smf/index. ... 597.0.html
on the weather display forum

[Gary Roberts]

tgsnoopy, I guess you already have AC mains and a landline to the site, and make regular service visits...that simplifies things a heck of a lot. We have neither due to the remoteness of the Benmore site, although, as it happens, I'm there a lot.

Just get a WM-918 (they can still be found if you look hard enough, and are dirt cheap when compared with other, far more expensive models) and hook it up to your WinXP machine.

You can install VNC (or use the native Windows 'Remote Desktop Connection' app) to log in remotely and do anything that needs doing.

The computer, rather than the AWS, is likely to be the weak point. We've installed six WM-918's since 1997(?) without a single failure (other than a cable cut by a contractor on one temp sensor). The computers however have been a different story: whether recycled Frankenstein junkboxes or brandnew high-spec machines, Windows would eventually kill them all. Definitely consider a *nix/*bsd option.

Try chatting with Jeff about his Linux-based setup. He runs some very nice scripts by the look of it! The leaner the app, the lighter the load, and therefore the lower spec the PC needs to be, and generally a more reliable system is the result. Andy Keir's FreeWX is tiny, but Linux-based apps tend to be tinier still! However Andy's excellent site is here:

http://www.freewx.net

Maybe Jeff can also advise you re the Dallas One-Wire system too. It's amazingly cost-effective, but requires some technical knowhow, which you seem to possess in spades, so it might be right up your alley. You can find him (and his station) here:

http://weather.northcott.co.nz/

Good luck, hope we get to see data flowing from your site soon!

[Manukau heads obs]

dont get a wm918 as you wont be able to get any parts for them, as they are not made anymore, contrary to garys suggestions
there are lots of people around the world who have them failing now, and i think its iresponsible of gary to even try and promote it
i was one of the first people in nz to won a wm98, and so i have a long history with it...

weather display also works with the dallas 1 wire, which is a basic station with a poor design for the temperature, you will have to add your own temperature sensor and enclosure...but the good thing is you can keep adding to it, and add things like lightning counter, humidity, extra temperature, barometer, soil moisture, leaf wetness, grass minimum, all supported by weather display

I recommend the davis WMMii as the data logger gives you built in databack up too, and the 2.5 second data update rate is great for windy locations
rain is measured as 0.3mm per tip, the wm918 is only 1mm per tip, and needs calibration too...but you can increase its collection are, but that takes a lot of find tuning
the wm918 barometer is only 1 hpa resolution too, which gives very steppy barometer readings...the wm918 is a dead station now.

[Gary Roberts]

dont get a wm918...i think its iresponsible of gary to even try and promote it

I guess the difference between you and me on this matter Brian is due to the fact that I have no vested financial interest.

[03Stormchaser]

Isnt it spam if you have a 'financial interest' in a product and then promote it on a forum!

[Shepherds Valley WX]

How exactly does Brian have "a vested financial interest" in an obsolete WX?

I am intrigued by this accusation and/or assumption....

I have to say I am a Weather Display and WDLive software user, and a very happy one at that. It does everything and more that we need for on farm weather monitoring and is easy for the simple farmer to setup, configure and use.

We utilise two Lacrosse 2310's to provide primary and backup weather data for the farm monitoring PC's. All data is checked agianst manual recording instruments.The entire system has been operating 6 months and has proved to be very reliable and accurate when compared with neighbouring WX's and manual instrumentation.

[jeffsweather]

Im unsure on what Jeffs runs but his weather page would be one of the best I have ever seen (also Gary's), ever easy to ready, isnt cluttered up with rubbish.

the only one thing I would like to see on Jeffs is a dew point reading, Are you planning on putting one up on your page Jeff??

I've got a humidity sensor in the wings as well as barometric pressure. I can calculate dew point from the humidity sensor which is easier then keeping a 'wet bulb' temperature sensor working.

My site is 'home grown'. Most of the information comes from a database which makes life a bit easier.

Tgsnoopy, have a look at Peter Anderson's weather kit at http://www.phanderson.com/wx175/wx175.html

It has a serial interface to temperature, barometer, humidity, a counter that could be used for an anemometer etc.
I'm in the process of sorting out some interfacing and using this in my station.

PICAXE is another easy way to measure temperature directly via a DS18B20 temperature sensor, serial comms is also easy.

Contact me directly if you want some more info.

[tgsnoopy]

Hmm, In thinking further, it looks like I might be better suited to putting aside some funds and looking deeper into it then.

The site does have mains power, batteries with enough reserve capacity to run the communications equipment for about 48 hours if the Engine Alternator Fails to start. Even the FM Radio station has enough UPS backup battery to run for about 90 minutes presently. Power is not going to be a problem. I will admit that the Engine Alternator requires a top up ebery 4 hours in extended outages. We unfortunately don't have a low fuel alarm on it, so it can be darn inconsiderate sometimes.

I must admit the longest the PC has managed without needing attention is about 3 weeks. The site is visited roughly once a week with a PC reboot considered standard procedure.

I wish I had found the time to look into Linux, but so far I simply haven't found the time.

I certainly have food for thought now. Thanks

[Gary Roberts]

Hmm, In thinking further, it looks like I might be better suited to putting aside some funds and looking deeper into it then.

We've already exceeded our original weather station budget estimates by a factor of approximately six zillion.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. Yes, it's always like this...

[03Stormchaser]

Oh, and welcome to the forum. Yes, it's always like this...

nothing wrong with a bit of a discussion

[Fujita Phil]

SNOWBALL FIGHT!!! I love you guys...

I just picked up another console for the WM-918 from the UK last week. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered, but the part was there, my WM-918 is a rock and who knows if I will find another. I'm like Gary, it works, well, and is all I need to record and display the weather.

They had spare rain gauges but no temp sensors. I've already sliced the wind anemometer vane in half with an umbrella but never had any issues with the gauge or sensor.

[Thunder]

I don't have a weather station. Horaay!

[Michael]

Just need to look out the window

I don't have a weather station. Horaay!

[Gary Roberts]

SNOWBALL FIGHT!!! I love you guys...

I just picked up another console for the WM-918 from the UK last week. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered, but the part was there, my WM-918 is a rock and who knows if I will find another. I'm like Gary, it works, well, and is all I need to record and display the weather.

They had spare rain gauges but no temp sensors.

Please, don't mention snow. I want it to hold off for another month or two!

Re the WM-918s, I've pulled ours apart a few times just out of interest (as you do)...they don't look too hard to repair.

So far not one of the six has failed. Considering they are not far off ten years old, and often subjected to appalling conditions, that's not bad for NZ$449, I reckon!

Also I know of a couple of sites which are selling parts for them still. Maybe I should lay in an emergency stock while I still can?

If they ever do die on me, I'll probably replace them with the Observer from Fascinating Electronics. That's only $NZ680 and they seem pretty awesome.

I've already sliced the wind anemometer vane in half with an umbrella but never had any issues with the gauge or sensor.

Please tell me you got that on video!

[Gary Roberts]

I don't have a weather station. Horaay!

Why not? Hours of fun for the whole family!

[Thunder]

lol Micheal (Edit, Hi Gary!). Perhaps a future project for me to work on, I find the info from them really great so I don't despise them at all. Just something I haven't put much thought into doing right now but will at some point.

Cheers.