NZ/Aust Weather Comparisons

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Thu 11/01/2007 18:52

Tim S wrote:Just for the record, not to brag (well maybe a little ), Perth had 367.1hrs of sunshine for December, the record is 369hrs so almost the sunniest December on record.

Also for 2006 our total sunshine hours was 3277.2hrs, at an average of just under 9hrs/day! that amazed me actually. the record is 9.1hrs/day (or 3321hrs) so almost the sunniest year too.

Dont know if you know of this site janewaystv: http://www.marine.csiro.au/~lband/web_point/ it shows how cool the pacific is near you guys, you can also see the cool shallow water just of the coast that you were talking about.

Thanks for that Tim - yes can certainly see the low sea temps, being pushed up onto the Sydney Coast by peristant/strong NE winds.

3277 hrs - thats very sunny, no offence to you Tim, but that wouldnt go down well with me, what we get here in Sydney is enough for me, the more sun you get - the less rain you get and me being a huge fan of the rain........

Sydney's highest total for both sites was 2903 hrs in 1980 (Airport) and 2781 hrs in 1980 (Ob Hill).

Tim S · Unread post by **Tim S** » Thu 11/01/2007 19:22

Yes Rwood, we are lucky sods.

Though I agree with Janewaystv regarding wanting more rain than sunshine, it is great to have heaps of sunshine but its rain we really need.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Thu 11/01/2007 20:16

As I mentioned to janewaystv a while back, the small town of Takaka is an interesting rain/sun combo in NZ terms - about 2350 hrs sun on the coast, 1600mm rain on the coast and 2500mm not far inland.

Tim S · Unread post by **Tim S** » Thu 11/01/2007 20:25

Yeah and it is a great area, although I think my nerves would get rather frazzled having to drive over Takaka hill too often! that road is about as windy as I have ever driven on, well except for the 'short cut' to Abel Tasman National park that we accidently took earlier that day!

That aside though the scenery and climate does seem very appealing around that region. When we there I looked at house prices and you can get a very decent house on a reasonable sized section for fairly cheap too. Definitely on top of my list to live for when I retire/get sick of Perth.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Sat 13/01/2007 08:04

To deviate slightly - quite amused by this range of comments sampled during our poor summer (thus far):

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/10/st ... d=10418319

But seriously, I can fully understand why people get fed up with quirky unreliable weather. If this had been shaping as a settled anticyclonic season many would feel a lot better about it!

spwill · Unread post by **spwill** » Sat 13/01/2007 08:54

But seriously, I can fully understand why people get fed up with quirky unreliable weather.

Yes, especially after the past 3 months.
Will be very depressing if you dont have an interest in the bad weather.

Michael · Unread post by **Michael** » Sat 13/01/2007 09:14

At least the temperatures are more seasonal this past week with the NE

RWood wrote:To deviate slightly - quite amused by this range of comments sampled during our poor summer (thus far):

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/10/st ... d=10418319

But seriously, I can fully understand why people get fed up with quirky unreliable weather. If this had been shaping as a settled anticyclonic season many would feel a lot better about it!

TonyT · Unread post by **TonyT** » Sat 13/01/2007 10:20

janewaystv wrote:yes can certainly see the low sea temps, being pushed up onto the Sydney Coast by peristant/strong NE winds.

Um, how does that work? Aren't sea temps to the north generally warmer than temps to the south?

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 12:13

Yes, normally when summer comes, the current coming south from QLD brings warmer sea temps (around 20 to 23oC), but this summer so far sea temps have been unusually low even in QLD (16oC to 18oC). We have had many days of strong NE winds and they are responsible for the lower sea temps . If we get winds from the S or SE they tend to bring warmer sea temps. There has been many complaints about the low sea temps in the papers and radios. I went for a walk at Bondi Beach the other day - there was a lot of people sunning themselves but hardly anyone swimming.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Sat 13/01/2007 12:25

Michael wrote:At least the temperatures are more seasonal this past week with the NE

Fair point - it has come with a lot of cloudiness (though we had fair bit of sun on Thurs/Fri), but I could live with that for a while if it helps keep temps. more summerlike.

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 12:25

RWood wrote:As I mentioned to janewaystv a while back, the small town of Takaka is an interesting rain/sun combo in NZ terms - about 2350 hrs sun on the coast, 1600mm rain on the coast and 2500mm not far inland.

Yes, thats right - can remember our discussions about this. I find it a bit odd because all I have been hearing is about the "drought" in Nelson and Marlborough, so rainfall would be unreliable in the above-named areas? If N winds prevailed then well above rainfalls would be recorded? Its quite surprising that the top of the SI can get so much sunshine especially in S-SW airflows. Tauranga and the east of the NI would get the same too ?

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Sat 13/01/2007 13:28

No drought in Nelson-Marlborough, though 2006 rainfalls were generally a bit below average (Awatere valley in the east was fairly dry). N/NE events with plenty of moist inflow are regionally big rainfall-producers, though of course the mountainous zones in the west and southwest cop it from other directions as well. The Sounds can have a high rainfall in a N/NW event, which usually leaves the east coast dry.

The sheltered parts in Golden Bay, Tasman Bay and around Blenheim get a lot of protection from the west, southwest and south, so are sunniest. Similar considerations apply to coastal Bay of Plenty, with a little less sunshine and more vulnerability to heavy rainfalls from the NE. Gisborne and Hawkes Bay are more vulnerable to E & SE flows than nearly all of Nels./Marlb.

Rainfall in Takaka is occasionally low in summer months but protracted dryness is very uncommon.

With the topographical complexities, it's not surprising that in an old 1980s map Met. Service produced of NZ climatic subzones, Nelson province included at least 5 of them.

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 13:57

Tim S wrote:I knew you weren't a complainer Rwood. It seems you love your city and its climate and I can really see why, its a great place and the climate may be a bit miserable at times, but hey no where's perfect, except Perth.

It seems we have had similar weather lately (relatively speaking), though you are getting yours around a year later. Our Spring and summer in 05/06 was very cold and we recorded our coolest ever december on 05. We smashed the old record, getting an average max of 23.7C when we average 29.1C. This also came after a very wet winter, well May and June anyway, July somehow managed to be extremely dry.

People complained that we didnt get a summer in 05-06 and I dont blame them, even I who hates complaining about the weather, found myself doing so a few times. Though the thing is most of these people would complain if we did get a summer and we had hot spells of 38C+ for days on end too, just as you said, they only open their mouths when the weathers bad.

Its interesting that the pattern in your Spring/Summer is so similar to ours a year earlier, I wonder if there is any link? My first thought would be no as it is most likely a coincidence, as you said, Wellington was overdue for a few lousy months. Though I wonder if its related to ocean temps and currents, all the oceans are linked via the thermohaline (sp?) conveyor and I would imagine that when one ocean has a cool period this could have a knock on effect further down the line.

Regarding Perth's climate is it great having so much sunshine, but it is always good to see something to break the spell, you can have too much of a good thing, occasionaly.

Funnily enough Dec. 2005 for Sydney was the opposite - sunniest Dec. ever (322 hours) and sunniest of any month ever, 25mm of rain and mean max of 28.6oC highest on record and equal with 1990. Also the mean temp of 23.7oC 2nd highest on record (1990 had a record high mean temp. of 24.3oC). Dec. 2006 - a very huge contrast to Dec. 2005 - very cloudy (214 hrs), rain falling on 12 days (74mm) and coldest Dec. in 7 years.

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 14:10

Jan 2007 - far more sunshine than Dec 2006 (currently 111 hours - overcast today), rain (37mm so far), however temps still below average and wind contuining (very windy today from the S). We havent had a day over 30oC so far (Oct. 2006 had a 2-day heatwave with temps exceeding 36oC - the most since 1926), Nov. 2006 had 38oC and Dec. 2006 - highets temp was only 32oC.

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 18:34

Tony T - this article explains more about the cold sea temps during a Nor-easter. Click on this link.

http://www.swellnet.com.au/analysis/Col ... 290805.php

Tim S · Unread post by **Tim S** » Sat 13/01/2007 18:52

RWood wrote:With the topographical complexities, it's not surprising that in an old 1980s map Met. Service produced of NZ climatic subzones, Nelson province included at least 5 of them.

That doesn't surprise me either RWood, driving around the region you really had to dress for the '4 season's in one day' scenario.

No doubt a direct reflection of the topography of the region, which is very different for a West Aussie, we just have one big blob of land and a bigger blob of water.

I was wondering what would be the highest rainfall direction for NZ, of course it depends on the topography of each particular region, but in general what wind direction brings the most rain? would it be N-NE?

Tim S · Unread post by **Tim S** » Sat 13/01/2007 18:56

janewaystv wrote: Funnily enough Dec. 2005 for Sydney was the opposite - sunniest Dec. ever (322 hours) and sunniest of any month ever, 25mm of rain and mean max of 28.6oC highest on record and equal with 1990. Also the mean temp of 23.7oC 2nd highest on record (1990 had a record high mean temp. of 24.3oC). Dec. 2006 - a very huge contrast to Dec. 2005 - very cloudy (214 hrs), rain falling on 12 days (74mm) and coldest Dec. in 7 years.

Yeah you guys stole all our heat!

Seriously though I think it had something to do with the positioning of the highs, not getting established until well after passing out of the bight and into the tasman. Which meant our lovely west coast heat trough couldnt form that often and we shivered, well maybe not but we didnt sweat as much anyway.

You also had that super hot New years that season didnt yah, wasnt that one of your hottest days on record?

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Sat 13/01/2007 19:09

Tim S wrote: quote]

Yeah you guys stole all our heat! Seriously though I think it had something to do with the positioning of the highs, not getting established into well after passing out of the bight and into the tasman. Which meant our lovely west coast heat trough couldnt form that often and we shivered, well maybe not but we didnt sweat as much anyway.

You also had that super hot New years that season didnt yah, wasnt that one of your hottest days on record?

Yes, it was 44.2oC accompained by very hot and dry Nor-west winds - the 2nd hottest day on record and the highest since the record 45.3oC on 14th Jan. 1939. (A very severe heatwave affected SE Aust. at this time, with record max temps for Adelaide and Melbourne as well) - in Adelaide's case the heatwave was very severe with maximums exceeding 36oC every - day from the 5th to 14th Jan. 1939 - (6 of those days exceeded 40oC) and 4 of those days exceeded 45oC alone !!!. This was in a time period where there was no air-condioning so you can imagine how dreadful the heat would have been to Adelaide folk. Tragically 440 people died from this heatwave.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Mon 22/01/2007 13:12

Janewaystv:

[This is about Invercargill but doesn't really belong in a blog...I know you like looking at In'gill data]

Here's a little Excel sheet showing the variations in In'gill sunshine over successive 9-year periods: if you asked which month is the (relatively) brightest the answer would be "probably Feb, but has for periods been Jan, Sep, Oct, Nov". For the dullest, probably June, but has been May also over lengthy periods of time.

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Mon 22/01/2007 14:51

janewaystv wrote: quote]

quote]

Yes, it was 44.2oC accompained by very hot and dry Nor-west winds - the 2nd hottest day on record and the highest since the record 45.3oC on 14th Jan. 1939. (A very severe heatwave affected SE Aust. at this time, with record max temps for Adelaide and Melbourne as well) - in Adelaide's case the heatwave was very severe with maximums exceeding 36oC every - day from the 5th to 14th Jan. 1939 - (6 of those days exceeded 40oC) and 4 of those days exceeded 45oC alone !!!. This was in a time period where there was no air-condioning so you can imagine how dreadful the heat would have been to Adelaide folk. Tragically 440 people died from this heatwave.

In addition to this post - here are the maximum temp readings for Adelaide during the period 5th - 14th January 1939 with the 4th and 15th thrown in for comparison.

January 1939

(Date) (oC)

4 29.1
5 36.3
6 41.4
7 42.1
8 39.6
9 44.9
10 47.2
11 36.9
12 47.6
13 45.6
14 37.6
15 30.8

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Mon 22/01/2007 19:32

Thanks for that Rwood

.

Quite interesting seeing the possible maximum of sunshine hours should clear skies occur every-day. Southern NZ lies in the northern zone of an broad area of increasing cloudiness - would this be correct ? (I read this somewhere in an article).

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Mon 22/01/2007 19:46

I have started doing work on the Brisbane data-base now, it should be ready in about a months time (allowing for free time).

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Mon 22/01/2007 22:18

janewaystv wrote:Thanks for that Rwood .

Quite interesting seeing the possible maximum of sunshine hours should clear skies occur every-day. Southern NZ lies in the northern zone of an broad area of increasing cloudiness - would this be correct ? (I read this somewhere in an article).

Yes, that's true - Campbell Is. is not that far south of NZ (lat 52deg 33min)
, but averages only about 640 hrs sun/year (1941-1994), and only 600 in its last 30 years. It does contribute slightly to its own cloudiness. But I've seen ocean maps that suggest some parts of the southern ocean probably receive a bit less than 500 hrs (which suggest that the huge blanket of grey I saw below flying from Ushaia in S. Argentina to NZ once is rather common!).

janewaystv · Unread post by **janewaystv** » Wed 24/01/2007 23:10

Hi Rwood. As I mentioned previously - the Brisbane data that I got a few weeks ago from the BOM's Brisbane office was all in shambles

, very confusing to read and understand at 1st but thanks to my quick - brained PC - have managed to sort out the data now.

Brisbane Regional office - opened January 1840 (some data missing from 1847 - 1858 (1848 complete) and closed in July 1994.

Brisbane Aero opened in January 1929 (1929 to 1948 data are missing) and closed in February 2000.

Brisbane Aero (at a different site to the one above) opened in December 1992 and is still open.

Brisbane opened in December 1999 and is still open.

As for the missing data - I pointed this out when I got the data personally and they (BOM) were surprised as they hadnt noticed the missing data

, the woman commented dryly that I had hawk - like eyes (typical Queenslander

), she said she would get in touch with the admin department in Melbourne and see whats happening with the missing data and get back to me, I was surprised when she said they do the data entry in Melbourne

, bit odd if you ask me as I dont think thats correct, will find out more info later.

Another thing is the sunshine records are the absolute pits - very very poor (Records from 1931 - 1976 only) and they dont even appear at all other sites which I mentioned above, I pointed this out as well and she said it was because of the numerous site changes especially over the last 15 years and its really difficult to do it in the city as there are many high rise buildings in Brisbane nowdays and they block out the sun, I said what about Brisbane Aero - surely they record sunshine there to which she said she doesnt know

, so I emailed a different person and apparently susnhine recording is done at the airport but the data isnt going into the database as should normally be, so theyre following it up.

Disgraceful record - keeping management they have in Brisbane

.

Anyway will be focusing on the rainfall totals for Brisbane for now, wont do the sunshine until further notice

.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Thu 25/01/2007 09:14

Thanks, that's interesting. I'd really like to see some kind of coherent sun record for Brisbane [like Perth's]. Just because they get plenty, there's no excuse for such sloppiness! Well done on your research.

Auckland has a patchy record with its frequent site changes for sunshine recording so a coherent overall record to use for trend analysis just isn't there.

After a cloudy day yesterday here in Napier (quite dull till 4pm when it brightened up a lot) today is fine and warm with light NW and should get to at least 28C.

The dry countryside (brown hills) is manna from heaven for me after all that western district cloud, drizzle and gungy green vistas I've had to suffer in recent months. Reminds me of trips south to parents' place in Alex. - lovely brownness of Mackenzie and Central. Believe me, when you see endless green it's a tonic. I got used to that when we started to do trips from Southland to Central Otago many years ago.

PS - my recollection of the Brisbane sun data was that the short period of records from the Aero shows much higher values than the city data, simply because of horizon obstructions with the city data.