NZ's Hydro Storage situation

[tgsnoopy]

Oh dear, this just keeps looking worse.

http://www.electricitycommission.govt.n ... 4Jun08.pdf

[NZstorm]

Windfarms are quite a silly idea for the SI winter

I think anywhere in NZ has a seasonal low point for wind with the exception of the lower NI I guess. I think the country has to go for wind power and its a pity something like the RMA holds projects up.

[Manukau heads obs]

For the upper NI, June is tradionaly one of the windiest months....lots of W, NW, SW winds normaly....
not much so far this June!

[southernthrash]

Windfarms are quite a silly idea for the SI winter

I think anywhere in NZ has a seasonal low point for wind with the exception of the lower NI I guess. I think the country has to go for wind power and its a pity something like the RMA holds projects up.

Meridian won't release the wind data they have for the winter months for the Project Hayes site... And yet this project is supposed to ensure continuous supply through winter.

I'd rather see decentralisation of generation, wind farms next to the towns/cities they power.

[Andrew Massie]

I'd rather see decentralisation of generation, wind farms next to the towns/cities they power.

Ok, let's talk about Christchurch. 500kW for 1 wind turbine, the Christchurch maximum acceptable load is 570MW. That makes 1140 turbines. They must be up high, let's say the Port Hills. You try getting 1140 turbines installed there without the Port Hill NIMBY residents objecting.

Towns: Possibly. Cities: No.

There's just not enough grunt in wind turbines for serious power. I like tidal, but it's not happening fast enough. Decentralising doesn't need to happen. It's just that the biggest load needs a big supply, and nearby. IE Auckland and.... Coal?

I'm still picking Uranium. Whether we like it or not!

[southernthrash]

Oh I agree about wind having hugely limtited capacity, it's only really viable as a supplement.

I'd be fully supportive of nuclear, if this wee bit of land of ours wasn't so tectonically active...

GSV was pretty much spot on I reckon. And it's like that for a lot of NZ infrastructure.

[Michael]

I think anywhere in NZ has a seasonal low point for wind with the exception of the lower NI I guess. I think the country has to go for wind power and its a pity something like the RMA holds projects up.

And emissions having higher priority to energy generation.

[gllitz]

Hmmm...COMIT website now showing at 50% mark...not fun....hopefully a bit of a top-up this weekend...or not....

[TonyT]

A weekend like this pushes demand up too.

[NZ Thunderstorm Soc]

No worry here
We have our AGA cooker, a power generator and lots of firewood for the log burners.

JohnGaul
NZTS

[NZstorm]

Oh I agree about wind having hugely limtited capacity, it's only really viable as a supplement

Wind farms are common in the USA so they can't be that inefficient. NZ should harness energy where ever it can.

[Andrew Massie]

Oh I agree about wind having hugely limtited capacity, it's only really viable as a supplement

Wind farms are common in the USA so they can't be that inefficient. NZ should harness energy where ever it can.

I agree, but the red tape and NIMBYs make it very difficult. These people seem to enjoy protesting about not wanting to have pylons, wind turbines in their neighbourhood, but still want the lights to come on when they flick the switch..!

[NZ Thunderstorm Soc]

What about solar powered generated power systems?

JohnGaul
NZTS

[southernthrash]

Wind farms are great in the right places, red tape in NZ tends to work very well, this wouldn't be a great place to live without the RMA... Windfarms alone though can't be relied on to maintain base load, and I find it astounding that Meridian Energy is able to withold the winter wind data for the project hayes site throughout the consent process, this being the one data set that is absolutely central to the overall success or otherwise of the project.

If it didn't all come down to profit, then efficiency would be far more widely promoted and subsidised.

[rediguana]

Wind is good for getting dairy farms off the grid But seriously, it does need to be partnered with other forms of generation that compliment it.

Solar has been mentioned, but we are the land of the long white cloud after all. Only a few places such as Blenheim that have a lot of year round sun would see real benefits from solar.

Nuclear is not a good option for us because you generally need two stations - one to replace the other's load when it is taken offline for regular maintenance (or you have to have enough alternative generation means to replace its load). And current nuclear reactors provide a very large base load, and would be difficult to integrate into out existing system. I don't believe the tectonic risk is that great - the Japanese after all have a pile of reactors, and their country is as active as ours.

We honestly have to make do with less - either less generation capacity, or less government services somewhere else. I personally think that getting rid of Comalco would be a good start. They used to be sustainable on the grid, but no longer. It would at least give the country some breathing space until further investment is made in generation.

[Inny Binny]

The main (and only) problem I have with nuclear is plutonium waste left over, and that problem will be solved soon I believe (reusability).

The lakes are dinishing at a horrible rate.

[southernthrash]

Wind is good for getting dairy farms off the grid But seriously, it does need to be partnered with other forms of generation that compliment it.

Solar has been mentioned, but we are the land of the long white cloud after all. Only a few places such as Blenheim that have a lot of year round sun would see real benefits from solar.

Nuclear is not a good option for us because you generally need two stations - one to replace the other's load when it is taken offline for regular maintenance (or you have to have enough alternative generation means to replace its load). And current nuclear reactors provide a very large base load, and would be difficult to integrate into out existing system. I don't believe the tectonic risk is that great - the Japanese after all have a pile of reactors, and their country is as active as ours.

We honestly have to make do with less - either less generation capacity, or less government services somewhere else. I personally think that getting rid of Comalco would be a good start. They used to be sustainable on the grid, but no longer. It would at least give the country some breathing space until further investment is made in generation.

Japans earthquake + nuclear generation factor causes them continual serious headaches. That big quake last year happened right by a plant which saw some waste get into the sea, was kept rather quiet considering the scale of the event. The biggest problem with the tectonic issue is the storage of waste, which is why the US are putting so much time and money into geological exploration of disposal sites.

Tiwai will never be gotten rid of, losing them would be a serious blow to the national economy, as well as all but destroying that of Southland, and they keep Meridian in business. They go to ALOT of effort down there to keep themselves running as efficiently and environmentally friendly-ly as possible. And besides, if they stopped producing aluminium, what would the A380's wings be made of?

I really believe that as long as power generation is conducted for profit, our problems will not be solved, NZ is just too small.

[evltre2]

There is an article about this in the Herald this morning

The country has just four weeks before severe power cutbacks will be needed.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/sto ... d=10514857

[sthguy]

four weeks before severe power cutbacks will be needed.

It - will - rain.

Although storage is likely to bounce around in the worry zone all winter

[jrj]

If all of the country's pokie machines were switched off - problem solved!

[Lawrence]

You must liken New Zealand’s power problem like the opening of a Major Artery, do you use a sticking plaster to stem the bleeding slowly till its too late or do you use a tourniquet to stop the bleeding fully. Nuclear power is the tourniquet, swift, effective, viable, other options are just sticking plasters .

Why should the average New Zealander and businesses be asked to cut back usage? Why should we continue year after year, especially those who are old or on low incomes, suffer in the cold and the dark in fear of an expensive bill in the future and loss of potential efficient production, year after year after year?

A devastating 7.9 magnitude earthquake struck south-western China on May 12, leaving an estimated 65,000 people dead and millions homeless. Survivors at one point were concerned that dangerous cracks had appeared in several hydro dams and reservoirs around the earthquake zone and fear another disaster could be looming.

All of China's Nine operating (PWR) Nuclear stations were checked by the international atomic authority and found to be still operational and functioning safely, but it wasn’t news worthy apparently.

[Andrew Massie]

Stolen from NewstalkZB....

Could sand fire power stations?

10/06/2008 8:36:12

A Waikato University scientist believes sand could solve New Zealand's power problems.

Professor Earl Bardsley says power could be produced by converting white sand into silicon which can be burned in the same way as coal. His idea is gaining momentum in the science world and he has been asked to speak at the Oxford Round Table about the the eco-friendly idea.

Prof Bardsley says silicon is the perfect alternative to coal and nuclear power stations. He says silicon power plants would operate in the same way as coal-fired stations, but would not produce coal emissions. He says with low hydro lake levels, there has never been a better time to discuss ideas which result in clean fuel.

There's plenty of sand around!

[gllitz]

The Hydro lakes look to be getting a bit of precip/top-up later on this week THU-SAT, which is good news (phew....).
Let's hope they get a lot...of note, however, the low that brings aforementioned precip then drags up lots of cold air from the South as it passes over the SI and deepens off of the Canty coast......but perhaps that is best talked about in another thread..... (still too early to start a new one...)

EDIT: Indeed, latest run of GFS shows next MON/TUES not looking all that warm...will be interesting to watch, for sure ...but as said above...WAAAAAY to early to call...
Will need to be the topic of a new thread, for sure...wonder if we will get as many views/posts this time? (stir, stir, stir )

[melja]

Here are some good sites to keep up to date with the storage levels.
http://www.electricitycommission.govt.n ... us/minzone
This one is the govt own site and note the south island is allmost to the Emergency Zone but they still say we dont have a problem?
http://www.winterpower.co.nz/
This one is the power companys own site
Note the storage levels, govt says around 1100GWH storage left and other one says 1400GWH?
We are using around 110GWH a day but the inflows are only 30-40GWH thats a short fall of around 70 GWH a day so if we divide that into the storge left it doest leave many more weeks left-only around 3 weeks unless the inflows go up alot and they need to be around 110GWH stop them draining and higher to increase the lake levels.
This NW system we have now has the potential to help but i dont think it is going to increase the levels all that much just give us more time.

[NZstorm]

This NW system we have now has the potential to help but i dont think it is going to increase the levels all that much just give us more time.

The hydro situation will slowly improve as we go through the winter.