Questions about MetService

[Lacertae]

Do you know why we can't have access to more updated rain radar images ? I mean, 1 hour is quite a delay ...
Same thing for the satellite images.

Or if you know a NZ equivalent to that one : http://www.sat24.com/

[Tornado Tim]

No offense to the NZ Government or Metservice, but I don't think they give out enough money to them to give out more accurate forecasts.
Heck NOAA over in the U.S is nearly always spot on in there predictions, because peoples lives depend on it especially if they live in Tornado Alley. Since US Tornados reports are frequent in the US In spring- the President cant just ignore the situation.
Some Private organizations and Uni's do some of the forecastings too...
It would be awesome if NZ got a Doplar Radar eh?

[NZ Thunderstorm Soc]

Please check spelling before making topics.

JohnGaul
NZThS

[NZstorm]

USA is unique in the world for its availability of weather information on line.

The Met Service was converted into a 'user pays' state owned organisation some years ago. Mind you, if we the tax payer are funding the additional radars then we should get complete access to them free of charge.

[Lacertae]

OK, but don't tell me they turn on their radars only once per hour ?! They probably have more data stored somewhere and I wonder why we can't access it ? Especially the satellite images !

[Manukau heads obs]

if you sign up to Metconnect you get alot of information (user pays system)

[Myself]

They do have more frequent radar images, just not available to the public unless they pay. Should they be free? Well that's been discussed a fair bit here and at weatherwatch. Personally I think the benefits of making it available outweigh the negatives.
But, Metservice as a business is *required* to make a profit. If they choose to do that by selling radar imagery then so be it.
A possible negative of making all radar imagery free, is that the public do not know how to interpret everything they see. They don't know how radar works and they don't know the limitations. Meteorologists do. How would a member of the general public interpret the messy-sea reflections that appear in Cook Strait almost everyday, and look very similar to showers. How would the general public know if there is rain heading for Christchurch in a northwesterly or if it's just virga?
Now as for Tim's comments, the government do not fund the everyday forecasts that we see, they fund the weather warnings and a few other things (coastal forecasts I think). Have the metservice been underfunded? Well, who knows, but you could read something into the fact that there were no new radars planned for years and years, and then suddenly we get the New Plymouth one and several others in the pipeline in the years ahead. They are damned expensive, and I'd wager that something has changed in the metservice that has brought these about. Furthermore, bandying about comments such as "NOAA over in the U.S is nearly always spot on in there predictions" is hardly worthwhile considering this same user described Metservice as "useless" not so long ago. I personally find there is very little different between the outputs of various national meteorological organisations, and I think that is not terribly surprising. It's all very easy for us to slag off our own Met office, but talk is pretty bloody cheap and easy, we don't have the time constraints or the pressure, we don't have to be the ones that make the important call. We are mostly just armchair generals and backseat drivers, we have the easy life, and so I think it's important to try and get some balance in these things.

[Nev]

Just a few years ago we were only allowed one free update every 3 hours. You could also subscribe to Sky (more user-pays). I think NZ's five main Dopplers normally update every 15 minutes (might be 10 minutes now)?

[NZstorm]

But, Metservice as a business is *required* to make a profit. If they choose to do that by selling radar imagery then so be it.

If they want to sell radar to us they really should be sourcing private funding to invest in the radars.

[melja]

Now as for Tim's comments, the government do not fund the everyday forecasts that we see, they fund the weather warnings and a few other things (coastal forecasts I think). Have the metservice been underfunded? .

I think you will find that they do fund them Mountain,coastal,sat img, iso maps,and national forcasts and all thats in the warnings part so its about all most people need in everyday forcasts

[Myself]

But, Metservice as a business is *required* to make a profit. If they choose to do that by selling radar imagery then so be it.

If they want to sell radar to us they really should be sourcing private funding to invest in the radars.

That's the main thing that doesn't sit easy at all.

[Myself]

Now as for Tim's comments, the government do not fund the everyday forecasts that we see, they fund the weather warnings and a few other things (coastal forecasts I think). Have the metservice been underfunded? .

I think you will find that they do fund them Mountain,coastal,sat img, iso maps,and national forcasts and all thats in the warnings part so its about all most people need in everyday forcasts

What I mean is, for most people in the country, the "forecast" is what they see when they click on their city on the MS website, or what they hear on the radio or see on the TV. None of these are government funded.

[Lacertae]

Wow, pretty cool what they offer on the MetConnect ! I can't imagine the price ...

[Inny Binny]

Isn't it inarguably easier to forecast weather for the US plains than for NZ?

[Tornado Tim]

@Myself: I find your comments "non-rational" when I meant that they were "useless" I did not mean that the meteorologists were useless like you were referring to.
I was just stating that it is possible to have more accurate reading if you had you own weather station.
It is hard to explain your self fully on the forum... to put everything in words.
I really don't like how you have painted me to be a hypocrite over the forums... i find it exeeding rude.
In the mean time can you please keep the forums clean.....
It is not the place for you to be putting other members down for there views.
Everyone has independent thought...weither you accept that or not is not my problem or anyone else's.
BTW, why i am posting here rather than in a PM: I though I might want to clear the situation up since that comment has spread around the forum....
I do agree with you that most of us are backseat observers....we do have it easy.
Anyway....I h8 disagreements especially when it is over something so small and depends on how people take other peoples comments...

[jamie]

Wow, pretty cool what they offer on the MetConnect ! I can't imagine the price ...

got a quote once and it was like 120 per month or something. That was like a year ago or actully maby it was 2.. anyway i was just wanting to know how much it was.

[Philip Duncan]

Hi guys,
This is something I feel very strongly about. All western nations (that I know of) have far more regular updates, for free, to the general public. I appreciate the fact that NZ is a small nation and therefore 'freeing' things up might not be as easy. But in this day and age there is absolutely no reason why updates can't be more frequent with private sponsorship deals to help make this possible - NOT user pays.

At WeatherWatch we have MetConnect, obviously we need to access radar and other weather products, but it certainly isn't cheap and I'm sure these costs limits free and open competition in the market place. I find the Government's control of Radar images quite similar to Telecom's control of phone lines in the 90s - it doesnt make for the cheapest products for the public and limits competition/growth. Please note this is definitely NOT a dig at the great folk who work at MetService... while I don't always agree with them I do have an immense amount of respect for their knowledge and passion in this field. To me this is an issue I have with the NZ Government who fund MetService. Yes radar costs money but last time I looked MetService was making a pretty healthy profit - I don't think money is the issue.

As far as 'Myself's' comment re: The public not being able to read them. I admit I thought of that too - but then thought that's just an education process. In the USA and Canada radar images are as big a part of their lives as our weather charts...if not bigger! I can't see how it can do any HARM by freeing the images up - but it would absolutely need educational campaigns behind it. But these images are already free (once an hour) so we're not really adding anything NEW into the public domain - we just want more regular updates.

I wrote a blog for the NZ Herald a few months back about this: http://www.weatherwatch.co.nz/content/b ... ain-radars

Hope everyone is well and enjoying the heat!!
Cheers all
Phil.

[Willoughby]

OK, but don't tell me they turn on their radars only once per hour ?! They probably have more data stored somewhere and I wonder why we can't access it ? Especially the satellite images !

They recieve radar images every 5-7 minutes and give it back to us (the funders) every one hour at a small resolution. Nice eh?

Satellite is a different story - unlike the EUMETSAT and NOAA GOES satellites which take snaps every 15 minutes or so... Japan's MTSAT satellite is hourly and thus that's what we get it as.

However! The GOES-W satellite is just within coverage over NZ apart from Timaru southwards.

Click for results here: http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/GOES/globalir.html , select animation with up to 30 frames and click around NZ - notice the difference in smoothness compared to Australia!

Heck NOAA over in the U.S is nearly always spot on in there predictions,

Mmmmmmm can't say I agree with this in regards to storm forecasting

If they want to sell radar to us they really should be sourcing private funding to invest in the radars.

Too right! Unfortunately $$$ speaks volumes

@Myself: I find your comments "non-rational" when I meant that they were "useless" I did not mean that the meteorologists were useless like you were referring to.
I was just stating that it is possible to have more accurate reading if you had you own weather station.
It is hard to explain your self fully on the forum... to put everything in words.
I really don't like how you have painted me to be a hypocrite over the forums... i find it exeeding rude.
In the mean time can you please keep the forums clean.....
It is not the place for you to be putting other members down for there views.
Everyone has independent thought...weither you accept that or not is not my problem or anyone else's.
BTW, why i am posting here rather than in a PM: I though I might want to clear the situation up since that comment has spread around the forum....

Hey hey, I think Myself was trying to add his(her?) opinion of the situation and put a few facts right with your claims. We all have to take criticsm from time to time and try to learn from it, even if we always think we're right.

They don't know how radar works and they don't know the limitations. Meteorologists do. How would a member of the general public interpret the messy-sea reflections that appear in Cook Strait almost everyday, and look very similar to showers. How would the general public know if there is rain heading for Christchurch in a northwesterly or if it's just virga?

Nothing but a bit of education can't help can it? MetService already have a good "Understanding Radar Imagery" section next to all radar imagery products so the generalisation in bold could be chucked.
If some person even overlooks that... then it's down to their own ignorance.

[Manukau heads obs]

not all western countries provide more data...the UK met office provides less (last time I checked)!

[igaquo1]

The UK Met Office provides every 30mins. However, the UK Met Office have on sold their radar data to other providers who then repackage the data to consumers. Such as http://www.netweather.tv. For £24 per year, we get 5min updates, high resolution - that can be zoomed in on your suburb / postcode, precipitation type, overlays of many types of weather data, like upper air data, CAPE, Lifted Index,air pressure, lightning , and there is animation also.

It's an impressive package for just £24 per year. If the Metservice don't want give away their images for free, I can sort of understand that, then why don't they sell just the radar images at a far more accessible price, exclusive of the more "value-added" forecasts?

Jeremy

[Razor]

Related but on a different tangent...the metservice drive me balmy with their "Nowcasting" sometimes. This morning with ChCh maximum temps is a classic example, first they said 29, then 33 now 31. All by 9.20am!!!

For the record its currently 31 already ayt 9.30, so no doubt they will change it again shortly!

[Manukau heads obs]

personaly I dont worry much about if the max temperature gets to the forecasted max or not

with CHCH, there is alot of factors that come into play for when you get high temperatures, and a small change in one can make a big change in the end result

[Razor]

personaly I dont worry much about if the max temperature gets to the forecasted max or not

with CHCH, there is alot of factors that come into play for when you get high temperatures, and a small change in one can make a big change in the end result

I don't mind whether it gets to the predicted or not either MHO, what bugs me is that I logged on 3 times in an hour and a half and got three different predictions. Not the most professional look!

[Nev]

They recieve radar images every 5-7 minutes and give it back to us (the funders) every one hour at a small resolution...

Did a little digging and according to MetService's MetConnect page, the rain-radar imagery updates every 7.5 to 15 minutes. In other words, every 15 minutes, the radars perform two full 3-dimensional volume scans. The first is a non-doppler scan that covers an area out to a range of 480 km, records data at 2-km resolution, and measures only radar reflectivity. The second is a full doppler scan that covers an area out to a range of 240 km, records data at 1-km resolution, and is able to measure velocity as well as radar reflectivity. These two scans can then be processed together to produce high-resolution images of the precipitation over each of the 4 main metropolitan areas (not sure about New Plymouth).

If you're only interested in the last 4 hourly NZ rain-radar images, but want slightly higher resolution images, you could try this alternate Australian based site. The 3-hourly satellite loop is pretty good too.

[Manukau heads obs]

Razor, first you worry when the met service is behind in the forecasts, then you worry when they are updating the forecast too frequently?