Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

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Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

I have been doing a little researching on the boltek lightning detectors and would like some more info on them.
The LD250 seems offer long distance but since its via serial interface people have said there is a limit on how many strikes it can detect.
Since the PCI version can handle more strikes im not sure which 1 I should go 4 in the future.
Anymore info would be much appreciated.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

There is a Boltek on Trade Me at the mo.

Thought I'd mention it, cause from memory of what they cost KaimaiKid to bring in, it's a fair price.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by optrex »

Hi Tim,

The LD250 is fine if you are travelling or chasing storms using a laptop. It offers GPS integration The only bugbear is that all strikes are collated as -CG

I am not sure where you are getting your info on how many strikes you can detect (I presume you mean simultaneously), but in my experience I doubt you will get a storm where the serial cant handle the multiple strikes you see in NZ. My LD seems to pick up around 2.5 time more strikes than any other local unit (see South CHCH Storm Tracker)

The PCI version differentiates the strike type and splits it between +CG -CG +IC and -IC however it does not offer GPS integration. Accuracy on any Boltek is limited to 300 miles.

I hope this helps you with your choice
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

optrex wrote:Hi Tim,

The LD250 is fine if you are travelling or chasing storms using a laptop. It offers GPS integration The only bugbear is that all strikes are collated as -CG

I am not sure where you are getting your info on how many strikes you can detect (I presume you mean simultaneously), but in my experience I doubt you will get a storm where the serial cant handle the multiple strikes you see in NZ. My LD seems to pick up around 2.5 time more strikes than any other local unit (see South CHCH Storm Tracker)

The PCI version differentiates the strike type and splits it between +CG -CG +IC and -IC however it does not offer GPS integration. Accuracy on any Boltek is limited to 300 miles.

I hope this helps you with your choice
Thanks Optrex
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

another difference is that the LD-250 does all the processing of the data
with the PCI version, the software has access to the raw data,and so can do its own processing
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Vertigo »

the problem with the bolteks, and in fact all single detectors, is that you cant triangulate the signals, and therefore the reported position can be off. they usually are quite accurate indeed on direction, but can vary wildly on distance. but if you calculate based on a common signal received by two or more detectors, the accuracy of the strike goes up extraordinarily.

im sorry, i cant remember who it was that implemented that program :) but the correlated strike stormvue map is about the best thing we have right now. it does tend to miss a few strikes tho, if they cant be triangulated. question tho: will adding more bolteks to the network result in increased pickup rate?
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by jamie »

yea tim if you get one that means there will be lots on the correlated network for the upper north island. 2 in the waikato (you and me), brian up the manukau peninsula (are you still on the correlated network now that your using a mac brian?) ricky in auckland, and the one in kerikeri.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

jamie.h wrote:yea tim if you get one that means there will be lots on the correlated network for the upper north island. 2 in the waikato (you and me), brian up the manukau peninsula (are you still on the correlated network now that your using a mac brian?) ricky in auckland, and the one in kerikeri.
There is 1 in Tokoroa too but he hasnt correlated it.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

because I have mine running on the Mac, I am using software I wrote myself for it
so , no, its not updating to the correlated network
I am only using the LD250 here
I am a bit sheltered by some nearby hills around, so not working all that great, but also I have not put the aerial outside yet either!
one of those round 2 it jobs
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by ricky »

Yep, with the LD250 it's the Boltek firmware that does strike analysis and discrimination so other than setting squelch level to remove low level interference and having something like nexstorm perform some statistical analysis to move strikes to their most likely positions, there is nothing more that can be done to improve the positioning.. With the card, the software can do analysis of the three signal waveforms together to determine lots more info about every strike and also about noise around the strikes. This gives the opportunity to introduce new algorithms to improve ranging etc.
Steven Graham wrote the correlation program which just uses the strike angles and I have a copy running here with Hamilton, Auckland and Kerikeri data, it's easy to use any combination of station's strike data however there are some strange effects where the strike angles are usually in error consistently from some sectors on some detectors. Of course with triangulation it's best for the stations not to be too close together and not on the same line or storms approaching this line will become wildly placed as small angular errors become huge position errors!
The detectors also are not very good with close storms, as you can imagine one lightning bolt can cover quite a large angle of sky leading to sometimes widely spread results, that's why i usually leave my nexstorm plot ranging set zoomed a long way out as it better represents the angular accuracy that way.. Ideally there would be correlations between detectors in say Northland, Taranaki, eastern BOP and lower NI, Chch and west coast using an algorithm that does some best fit positioning from all the correlation pairs..
Really the general idea is that these detectors are great for seeing that something is happening in near realtime and getting some idea of where and how much..
I do quite often see the combined strike plots being used to show total lightning strikes, this is particularly bad as all it does is give multiple positions and counts for each real strike, often spreading them around all over the place, and given the detectors will often show multiple strikes for one real strike in big or close storms, a very exaggerated strike count!
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Hmmm Another issue is software, numerous ppl have told me that Lightning 2000 Software does a way better job at picking up lightning strikes and correlating them compared to nexstorm.
However Lightning 2000 does not have a good output to display data online.

It makes it really hard which software you want to get, Nextsorm is actually quite expensive ($300) compared with Lightning 2000 which is around $150.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

the problem comparing L2000 and nexstorm, is , has anyone does a proper comparison?
you would need to PC's and 2 detectors I would think, running side by side, to do a proper comparison
the Author of nexstorm denies its not as good at close range....
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

OK, I have done a low freq AM radio check to see if any noise is on it.
Unsurprisingly I am getting these ticks every 1 or 2 secs from the neighbors electric fences behind me.
So for the ppl who have electric fences and a boltek i would like to hear from you......Jamie, possibly Brian......?
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by jamie »

is that what that txt was about Tim? so you want me to listen on lowest am frequency possible?
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Yea just to check if your getting the same stuff I am getting (the ticking every 2 secs or so). Because you dont seem to get false strikes on your boltek.
I have been told if the electric fence is insulated enough it shouldn't be a problem as long is its making a ticking sound rather than a sparking sound (when lightning occurs on a AM radio)
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

I know that nexstorm worked with me on improving the algorithm to ignore electric fence strikes
so make sure to be using the latest version of that

our deisel generator causes false strikes on my LD250

so, its basicly for sale.....
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Dont sell your LD250 Brian, LOL
Next time thunderstorm season rolls through and you want to chase bring it with you and you can chase with it. :D
If you still have your Weather monitor II hook it up to your car and you will have 1 awesome car to chase with!!!!
Last edited by Tornado Tim on Tue 23/03/2010 09:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

now thats a good idea
the aerial is just sitting here in the corner of the office, so ready to pick up :)
and yup I still have the weather station car mounted setup
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Do you have the GPS timestamp module in it? i think that would be best as the software can do a offset from north.
Like this:
http://astrogenic.com/img/nexshots/chase.png
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by ricky »

It's got a serial port for GPS NMEA input i think, very easy to sort out :)

I think the noise from the house mains is mostly because the antenna is inside next to the wiring Brian, why just on generator I don't know but I'll be finding out why when we do the final wiring :)
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by kaimaikid »

I for one won't purchase Nexstorm ever again, the seller of the software left me with a rather bad taste in my mouth when I sold my Boltek, I had purchased Nexstorm thinking that I owned the software but to my surprise, somehow the seller found out that I gave it away with the Boltek and permanently blocked it.

His attitude when trying to get it sorted was less than favourable.

Unbeknown to me, all you own is the right to use his software while he deems fit.

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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Manukau heads obs »

yeah,he does not allow it to be transfered to someone else...as to him that is a lost sale...something along those lines..
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

kaimaikid wrote:I for one won't purchase Nexstorm ever again... Unbeknown to me, all you own is the right to use his software while he deems fit.
Manukau heads observer wrote:yeah,he does not allow it to be transfered to someone else...as to him that is a lost sale...something along those lines..
There should be a law against that. :(
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by iomkiwi »

tgsnoopy wrote:
kaimaikid wrote:I for one won't purchase Nexstorm ever again... Unbeknown to me, all you own is the right to use his software while he deems fit.
Manukau heads observer wrote:yeah,he does not allow it to be transfered to someone else...as to him that is a lost sale...something along those lines..
There should be a law against that. :(
Isn't it more like standard software license in that you are only allowed to install it on one computer?

When I bought my equipment off TradeMe I had no problems at all getting it transferred, all I needed was a note from the previous owner to say he had sold the whole system to me. There may have been a small fee involved and I also made sure I bought the map for my location off him.
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Re: Boltek storm tracker PCI vs LD250

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

ok this throws a spanner in the works, I dont really want to use l2k as the data output is rather mucked.

So now Im am really confused, LOL

Is there any other software out there?
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