Skywarn NZ

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Tornado Tim
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Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Based on previous conversations i want to get the ball rolling about the subject of a skywarn for NZ!

The UK has 1, and the US has its spotter network so why dont we have 1?

Since that MS is very centralized in Wellington, i think it would be a good idea if they could set up a 0800 number as Paul said previously so we can report straight to MS.
This means if MS need confirmation on what they see on radar etc ppl can confirm it and the appropriate warning could be issued more promptly making the warnings even more effective and useful.

I think to ensure quality of the reports a test should be conducted when signing up for the first time, (this is already in place for the spotter network for the US ).

Anyway I would like to know ppl's feedback on this to see if you think its viable or not.

I made up a draft membership tag so ppl who are part of skywarn NZ can ID themselves.
skywarn.png
I made up the title "skywarn NZ" as it is simple but if you have a better idea go ahead and suggest it.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

This is a project I have been repeatedly pushing. When I was based in the UK, I made sure that I had close links with ESTOFEX, TORRO and other organisations, all of which the SKYWARN network utilise. There is nothing of this nature for New Zealand.

As you will know, I have also regularly asked for like minded people to get in touch as one of my aims is to setup a similar service. I sent this out to a large weather based group last month. Weatherwatch were interested in promoting it at one point, but as yet I have not had opportunity to followup.
This appeal goes out to the storm chasers and those of you who have a more scientific approach to your weather interest. In the UK, when severe weather was reported or the media referred to an incident such as a "mini tornado" local enthusiasts would go out and investigate the scene. They didn't have to be experts, but just interested. While there, they would collect video, photograph, map and plot the damage path, then knock the doors of those affected to get witness reports. The information would be collated and posted along with charts, radar and other researched data, on the forum for others to comment collectively. This formed the humble beginnings of what is now the amateur organisation TORRO.

NZ Weather has in place a website form for people to complete to report weather events, but what it doesn't have is a team of people willing to travel a bit and conduct an on-site investigation. I would very much like to establish such a team of people to cover New Zealand. If you are interested, please let me know............
The reporting structure is in place (as are others that are being worked on behind the scenes), the web presence is in place, but there is no point in collecing it if you don't have any analysts in place - all that is needed is the people who would be interested in confirming the reports and working through the data
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

I don't mind a 'skywarn' idea in NZ as long as not just every and any body can be member. New Zealanders and im sure it happens all round the world have a tendency to extravagant weather reports.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by NZstorm »

I think this forum kind of plays the skywarn role. If someone sets up an alternative I would certainly support it with observations.

I can see why USA/Canada have skywarn, its such an incredible place for convection.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

NZstorm wrote:I think this forum kind of plays the skywarn role. If someone sets up an alternative I would certainly support it with observations.

I can see why USA/Canada have skywarn, its such an incredible place for convection.
I Agree with NZstorm that this forum doubles up as reporting, its just that more MS Meteorologists need to look at it.

Its just we have to have a place for testing, to make sure that reports are 100% legit and not over hyped.

Once the test is completed and passed it may be good idea if Foggy or a Mod could stick the ppl who passed the test into a Group called "Certified Spotter".
From what I know about this forum software is that once you allocate a member into a group it becomes visible under their Avatar/Username so MS can see see easily who is a spotter and who is not.
Spotter ID's can be possibly displayed in your signature banner.

So Weather Watcher and Paul can you please tell your workmates about this please :)

So all we need is a website that can provide a test and send the results of a test back to Foggy or a Mod and for MS to look at this forum more ;)
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

I can't see the point of doubling up what is already in place elsewhere and duplicating other peoples ideas tbh tim.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

optrex wrote:I can't see the point of doubling up what is already in place elsewhere and duplicating other peoples ideas tbh tim.
Well you havnt gone about it the right way about it Grant!
Any1 thats on your forum can submit reports, this can introduce a large amount of error!

And anyway I dont see any1 of importance (eg a meteorologist) on your forum that could actually do something with it, if it was reported.

Remember Grant, your forum may have all the wiz bang features but what it comes down to ppl using them, thats another story. I only see a few ppl on your severe reporting thread signing up for it.

And by the way I will bring up this nice point and make use of your quote quite nicely! ;)
optrex wrote:I can't see the point of doubling up what is already in place elsewhere and duplicating other peoples ideas tbh tim.
Oh Guess what you doubled up on whats already in place too by adding a 2nd NZ Weather forum when this 1 was established long b4 your forum came to town! So your a hypocrite imho!

And anyway I dont see it as duplicating, this will actually involve the Metservice a group who will make use of the reports when they are reported.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

I am not going to get into personal argument with you on here Tim, that is why you have your account suspended on the other site. I just find it interesting that you are willing to critisise me, but here you are promoting the ideas that were in process while you were a staff member on the other site.
Well you havnt gone about it the right way about it Grant!
Any1 thats on your forum can submit reports, this can introduce a large amount of error!
If you re-read the appeal that was launched back in April you will see that it clearly states on the last paragraph how we intended to counteract that.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

I agree with NZstorm when he says I think this forum kind of plays the skywarn role, unsure why we need 2 weather forums in NZ, or even weatherwatch for that matter. The weather community isn't that big here, although I guess im looking at it from a severe weather/chasers view point.

Metservice can keep an eye on this place and then contact any member if they wanted any more information. Paul is around here occasionally and im sure others lurk and get a feel for who posts credible information.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Nev »

I've temporarily locked this thread until further notice as it appears to have degenerated into the trading of personal attacks.

Edit: Ok, I've reopened this topic, as I think it's a valid discussion. Although the concept is not new to this forum, whoever's idea it was is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Nev »

03Stormchaser wrote:I agree with NZstorm when he says I think this forum kind of plays the skywarn role, unsure why we need 2 weather forums in NZ, or even weatherwatch for that matter. The weather community isn't that big here, although I guess im looking at it from a severe weather/chasers view point.

Metservice can keep an eye on this place and then contact any member if they wanted any more information. Paul is around here occasionally and im sure others lurk and get a feel for who posts credible information.
Couldn't agree more. If there's a severe thunderstorm, or reports of tornadoes, I'm pretty sure Paul and others from MetService like to keep an eye on this forum, but that's just my 2 cents worth. :D
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

03Stormchaser wrote: The weather community isn't that big here, although I guess im looking at it from a severe weather/chasers view point.
Just for the record, SkyWarn UK started with only 30 members and now has 120+ members. Surely, throughout NZ, there must be enough people to make such a project viable?
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

Well at least one person at MetService has my cellphone number and isn't afraid to use it. Unfortunately I wasn't in the area of interest at the time, but good on them for trying.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they routinely look at both sites when appropriate. But I believe under action weather circumstances they would be lucky to have sufficient time to look at one site, let alone several.

If we were to try to set something up it will need to be done in consultation with them. I believe the only way it would be practical for them would be integrated into their own site.

I suggest combining forces and approaching MetService may be a good idea.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

tgsnoopy wrote: If we were to try to set something up it will need to be done in consultation with them. I believe the only way it would be practical for them would be integrated into their own site.
Or have a 'central' location such as a Skywarn NZ site where everything is collated and formed.
tgsnoopy wrote: I suggest combining forces and approaching MetService may be a good idea.
At least ask MetService what they would like. They also might prefer the idea of a central location with the pertinent info being passed on to them. It would ease the burden on them. I believe that's the way SkyWarn UK do it.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Vertigo »

I do have to agree that this forum serves the purpose quite well. Metservice employees do frequent us and appreciate our reports, and in turn offer us insights that the general public wouldnt really be capable of understanding anyway. Its a symbiotic relationship. I would like to see it formalized further tho.

NZWeather... while I did sign up there in its inception, and I do appreciate its aim, I just feel like its a bit big in scope, and a bit redundant when our venerable weather forum serves its purpose very well. I cant say Ive been back there.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

OK this is good feedback, while the ball is rolling lets expand on the orginal concept. I'll try to do it using terminology used here to avoid confusion. The network has a series of layers.

Spotters: Essentially this is the report of the event It can be from a casual source, media report or member report.
RFMI: The information is collated and a RFMI issued - a request for more information

Depending on what is received in the above two layers detemines whether a site investigation is called for. This is done by a network of severe weather investigators and formed the basis of the appear for interested parties back in April - ie you guys!

Site Investigation: Will be co-ordinated to assess damage, plot track paths, gather witness reports, obtain images and "collects" if any are avialble as well as other stuff that we need not go into here. You do not need a technical background, you just need an interest. Training and guidance can be given.

Data Analysis: All the data collected and available via media sources will be collated and refernced against weather charts, forecasts, radar etc This group may be formed from the group above and have input from individuals with a professional background ie Academics, or employees of MetService, NIWA etc. It may also have international participants with personal experience of recording SW events in other contries

The findings would then be published, so we really would have a more scientific approach to being able to counter the media claims of "Mini tornadoes" rather than just aving a hypothesis or armchair view.

It needs some work, but that is the basics. Like I say everything is in place other than the invetigators - MetService won't have the funds for that part of it!

If you would like more infomration, please get in touch and I woudl be happy to dicsuss the finer points, its a work in progress established from my own experience of doing this in the UK with established organisations previously mentioned.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

Vertigo wrote:I do have to agree that this forum serves the purpose quite well. Metservice employees do frequent us and appreciate our reports, and in turn offer us insights that the general public wouldnt really be capable of understanding anyway. Its a symbiotic relationship. I would like to see it formalized further tho.
I'm interested but only if it isn't limited to just a forum, whichever forum that may be, as I don't see that serving a useful purpose for the wider community e.g. the name "SkyWarn" should actually mean something. If it's limited simply to a forum or two that the general public doesn't even know about, then I fail to see its usefulness.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Vertigo »

Because its not about warning the public - that is Metservices job, and they are far better at it than we could ever be. What it is about is providing Metservice with from-the-field reports and observations, so that they can in turn provide the public with a better informed analysis of the situation, and improve their forecasting.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Vertigo wrote:Because its not about warning the public - that is Metservices job, and they are far better at it than we could ever be. What it is about is providing Metservice with from-the-field reports and observations, so that they can in turn provide the public with a better informed analysis of the situation, and improve their forecasting.
Completely agree Vertigo!
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

Yep, I see your point. I think maybe I was getting a little ahead of myself.... or maybe slightly adrift.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

03Stormchaser wrote:I don't mind a 'skywarn' idea in NZ as long as not just every and any body can be member. New Zealanders and im sure it happens all round the world have a tendency to extravagant weather reports.
Which is why it would make sense to have some kind of training program, e.g. http://www.skywarn.org.uk/presentation/ ... ation.html with a test at the end before one could become a certified spotter. (I mention SkyWarn UK because, being from the UK, I'm more familiar with that one).
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

Ever heard of the term "You'll catch more flies with Honey than Vinegar".

It seems to me that the technique you are using is not having the desired effect. I for one feel you are ramming your version down our throats.

If this is to happen and work, it needs to be done in consultation with all parties.

What gets decided upon will be what is decided upon.

It will not be some scheme from overseas that may or may not be appropriate here.

Kintyre, back off a little please.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Kintyre »

Not a problem. I wasn't "ramming" anything down anyone's throat. Merely backing up something that had already been said earlier....

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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

With you on that one tg!!

Why ask for input if you have already made your mind up on how this will work? I like it how the forums run atm the information can be found in posts and metservice if interested can look it on here.

One way we could make it easier for them is to do something similar to stormtrack and have a report board that is pretty strict in what you can post there and is strictly reports only, makes it easier to come back and read up on any particular event.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by NZstorm »

I like 03stormchasers suggestion of a stormtrack type reports thread. Its easily to set up.

I would also like to look the UKskywarn set up to see what they are doing. The UK and NZ have similar climates and I agree that the UK approach to this would be interesting to look at.
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