Skywarn NZ

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ricky
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by ricky »

The idea of a framework for amateur but more scientific Investigation and analysis of events sounds interesting..
I know it has happened informally here after events like a small auckland tornado or two where several of us spent hours out investigating it's track and damage and talking to locals etc
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by NZstorm »

Oops, I failed the uk skywarn test!
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Vertigo
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Vertigo »

:lol: =D>
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Twizel Dave »

Goodness what a kerfuffle!

Something I would like to understand is why we have so many amateur weather organisations here in NZ! Recently I returned from an extended stay overseas and there seemed to be far fewer people trying to tell me or sell me weather reports than in tiny little NZ!

At the risk of ruffling feathers any further, the only weather reports I'm interested in come from the official NZ meteorological service and NIWAR. Those I know I can trust because they originate from highly trained and experienced professionals who have access to professional weather monitoring tools.

Do not misunderstand me, I am all for discussion and participation by amateurs such as ourselves (otherwise why would I even be here?) but it is a fact that we are amateurs, no matter how much fun we're having and how much we are learning. The self-styled experts outside the ranks of the trained professionals would do well to remember that.

Sorry if anything I have written causes offense, but some things need to be said.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Doppler »

Twizel Dave, are you suggesting that we should not take notice of anyone unless they are funded by the government?!
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by spwill »

the only weather reports I'm interested in come from the official NZ meteorological service and NIWAR.
who will sometimes get their info from the public, even this forum. ;)
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Twizel Dave wrote:Goodness what a kerfuffle!

Something I would like to understand is why we have so many amateur weather organisations here in NZ! Recently I returned from an extended stay overseas and there seemed to be far fewer people trying to tell me or sell me weather reports than in tiny little NZ!

At the risk of ruffling feathers any further, the only weather reports I'm interested in come from the official NZ meteorological service and NIWAR. Those I know I can trust because they originate from highly trained and experienced professionals who have access to professional weather monitoring tools.

Do not misunderstand me, I am all for discussion and participation by amateurs such as ourselves (otherwise why would I even be here?) but it is a fact that we are amateurs, no matter how much fun we're having and how much we are learning. The self-styled experts outside the ranks of the trained professionals would do well to remember that.

Sorry if anything I have written causes offense, but some things need to be said.
Why on earth did you join a public forum then if you dont want to read out weather reports?
Ive never had anyone try and sell me a weather report?? How do you even do that ? I can imagine it, Jim hickey busking try to sell the 6pm weather report!
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Thunder »

Skywarn? Like NZstorm says it would be more important in the USA as it's more convective! But if one is set up hey I'm all for it.

I believe we may need a tornado siren in Kaiapoi however, manny funnel clouds there :lol:
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Tornado Tim
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Aaron J Wilkinson wrote: I believe we may need a tornado siren in Kaiapoi however, manny funnel clouds there :lol:
Cambridge has something very similar to an effect of a tornado siren. Its a Air Raid siren or something very similar to it!

It goes off every time the fire dept get called out.

When Me and Ricky and Dave came through Cambridge chasing a Severe Thunderstorm it went off and the situation started to become very USA storm like.

I wished you guys in the south could have been there :D
Aaron J Wilkinson wrote:Skywarn? Like NZstorm says it would be more important in the USA as it's more convective! But if one is set up hey I'm all for it.
Well the UK has 1 so why not eh? ;)
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by NZstorm »

The UK skywarn claims the UK has the highest number of tornadoes per unit area in the world. Interesting!


So if we start with a reports section on the forum. What is the criteria for reporting?

Funnel cloud observed
Waterspout
Tornado
Tornado damage
Hail 2cm+
Hail accumulation on ground
Hail damage
Snow accumulation greater than 3cm
Wind gusts in excess of 60knots(estimated or observed on anemometer)
Gale, severe gale, storm....
Wind damage
Excessive rainfall 25mm+ within 1 hour.

to get the ball rolling
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Tornado Tim
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Perhaps a dedicated section on this forum for reporting?
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03Stormchaser
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Yes definitely a dedicated section/board. Unsure how to do it, stormtrack does it via date and location of event that would probably work here, obviously not every southerly front we would wont a report on but only those that are severe. Only first hand accounts, unless guaranteed 100% accurate report like video footage, photos etc.

A criteria like NZstorm has posted would be a good guideline to start from, ideally we wouldn't want estimates of wind/hail etc but actually measurements, although not everyone has anemometers.
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optrex
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

Having put a lot of time and effort into this over the last few months, the platform I had initially designed and envisaged for a more scientific aproach to the reporting of severe weather across New Zealand is nearing completion. It will be using the format based on the suggestion in the post at http://www.weatherforum.org.nz/phpBB3/v ... 079#p90564

Unfortuantely having to take a month out to visit my terminally ill Dad in the UK delayed things a bit, but the aim is to have things complete by the end of the week. The microsite is taking shape nicely, but there is still lots to do before launch and whilst some elements are yet to be finalised, consructive feedback is most welcome.

Sure, having a dedicated section on this forum may well help encourage better reporting techniques from amateurs and weather enthusiasts across the country, but I do feel that centralisation would be more beneficial and remember the service being offered is not just about reporting a severe weather event, there is a lot more required.

If anyone would like clarification on how the system works or if anyone would like to volunteer their services (professional or otherwise), please do get in touch.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Andrew Massie »

Aaron J Wilkinson wrote:I believe we may need a tornado siren in Kaiapoi however, manny funnel clouds there :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

On a more serious note; why not use twitter? I floated the idea to Civil Defence and they took it up...
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

optrex wrote:Having put a lot of time and effort into this over the last few months, the platform I had initially designed and envisaged for a more scientific aproach to the reporting of severe weather across New Zealand is nearing completion. It will be using the format based on the suggestion in the post at http://www.***********.org.nz/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=*&t=****#p*****
Yet another blatant attempt to ram your version down our throat. :mad:

I seem to recall you saying somewhere else it was ready to go, here it's a week away :-k

I've said it before and I will say it again. Stop trying to force your version upon us. I'm not against the idea, but I am against one persons version being thrust upon us. We live in a democracy. Any such reporting system needs to be created out of consultation. The consultation needs to be done between those creating the reports and those who will use the reports.

I ask you, where is the consultation and peer review of this creation of yours?
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optrex
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by optrex »

tgsnoopy wrote: Yet another blatant attempt to ram your version down our throat. :mad:

I ask you, where is the consultation and peer review of this creation of yours?
So I in one hand I am ramming this version down your throat, but the other hand wants to be a part of the peer review and consultation process we've been undertaking. There is not really any way I can win that case is there.

The idea to produce an NZ version of this has been in the public domain since April. Feedback has been requested at all stages. In fact in the majority of posts I have made on this forum in this topic, not only have I explained how I envisage it working, but I have repeatedly asked for feedback from my "peers". So far the only feedback I see here is opposition.

Yes my initial iteration was ready to go, but based on constructive feedback, the project has changed. As with all things, these sort of projects are fluid.
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TonyT
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by TonyT »

Calm down folks. If this subject leads to such intensity of discussion and criticism then perhaps its best NOT to have any more formal reporting than we have now. As soon as you start talking tests/membership/microsite etc you are creating a division between an elite group and the rest. I cant see what is wrong with the reporting which takes place already on this forum. Its informal, first hand, laced with excitement and enthusiasm, and that to me is its biggest strength. Why would you want to take that away by attempting to formalise it? Isnt what we have got a whole lot BETTER than a formal system?
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

TonyT wrote:Calm down folks. If this subject leads to such intensity of discussion and criticism then perhaps its best NOT to have any more formal reporting than we have now. As soon as you start talking tests/membership/microsite etc you are creating a division between an elite group and the rest. I cant see what is wrong with the reporting which takes place already on this forum. Its informal, first hand, laced with excitement and enthusiasm, and that to me is its biggest strength. Why would you want to take that away by attempting to formalise it? Isnt what we have got a whole lot BETTER than a formal system?
Well put! :)
I would like to see a reports board but other than that the forum works well and has done for year, in its current form 7 years!
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

optrex wrote:
tgsnoopy wrote: Yet another blatant attempt to ram your version down our throat. :mad:

I ask you, where is the consultation and peer review of this creation of yours?
So I in one hand I am ramming this version down your throat, but the other hand wants to be a part of the peer review and consultation process we've been undertaking. There is not really any way I can win that case is there.
I still await evidence of the consultation you undertook before creating this reporting system.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion (and I've had off line support from some members for taking my stance) you have created your own version without any consultation. Then you have tried to get it adopted, met resistance and now are trying to adapt it to get it accepted.

This is entirely the wrong way to go about it and in my opinion smacks of a control freak type of personality, not someone I feel should be running such a scheme.

My 10 cents worth for what it is worth.
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Vertigo
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Vertigo »

optrex, your effort is noted, but it does seem like most people here just prefer this forum. Sorry if that makes you sad, or mad, but thats just the way it is. Think of your site as an open source project - people can use it, and contribute to it, but not all projects take off. Some die. Im not saying that yours will, but holding the attitude that you have to compete isnt really going to win any fans.

Just chill a bit. If you work with us, rather than against us or trying to win us over, things will be better.

ps. And by work with us, I mean your site working alongside this forum.
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by NZ Thunderstorm Soc »

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - Get it out with Optrex" - Spike Milligan ;)

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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by kaimaikid »

WOW - this is starting to look more like a "Greypower" meeting :eek: =D>

Certainly a good concept and also like Tim's idea of the 0800 number too for reporting events while on the road, it would certainly come in handy for the occasional spot of bad weather that we get here in the BOP from time to time.

@ optrex - does this mean that I'll have to spend $4kUS to get a weather station that meets the grade before I can join or will my agee jar and ruler do the trick? :-k

I did offer the Metservice free data if they would be so kind as to put up one of their weather stations in my back yard.... still working on that idea :-$
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

I found out Metservice already have a Severe Weather Reporting service:
So there is no point in making a NZ skywarn anymore.
I suggest contacting MS for some more info on it.

I have just joined it, they do give you a number you can call to report in(unless they call you, LOL) :D
I cant disclose the number sorry, (part of the agreement)
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by tgsnoopy »

Tornado Tim wrote:I found out Metservice already have a Severe Weather Reporting service:
So there is no point in making a NZ skywarn anymore.
I suggest contacting MS for some more info on it.

I have just joined it, they do give you a number you can call to report in(unless they call you, LOL) :D
I cant disclose the number sorry, (part of the agreement)
:) _b
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Re: Skywarn NZ

Unread post by Andrew Massie »

I do it using twitter..! I've got 'Metservice mates' ;)
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