2011 Ski Season

[southernthrash]

Most "local" ski enthusiasts tend to prefer spring to early winter in my experience. Yea it's good to blast the cobwebs out, but many can take it or leave it at this time of year. Early in the season I'd only head up for fresh snow, or if it's been consistently cold or mild. Otherwise it is just a tad miserable.

Basically, school holidays are usually when, first two weeks of July? This is cash in time for the skifields, and they need to be open by then to hit the black. If they can open before then, then holiday makers have more confidence, and fence sitters will be more likely to book school holiday trips.

If you look at the season opening dates for most ski areas, the bulk of them try to open a week before the July holidays, for this reason. It's also important (especially for the larger ski areas) to target the australian school holidays, that is the real pay dirt.

[Twizel Dave]

Hello all! The problem is that there has never been a "good" late season for snow ( in August for instance ) without it being built upon the snows from a good early season ( May to July ). When snow is sparse early on it never gets a great deal "better" as it were even if there are some fairly hefty falls in the later part of winter. You need a good build up of snow in the early months to hold the snow in later ones. This year has been incredible for its lack of snow. No one can remember anything quite like it. Unless some snow falls VERY soon, by the time any late season snow arrives it will already be too late.

Right now there is essentially no snow on the mountains and none is forecast. Who knows when ( if! ) there will be any at all this month, which for the snow tourism industry would be as devastating as it is amazing. Hopefully we'll get some heavy snow falls on the mountains before the end of the month but things aren't looking very promising in that regard and without that snow soon it won't really matter how much falls after July.

[spwill]

Most "local" ski enthusiasts tend to prefer spring to early winter in my experience. Yea it's good to blast the cobwebs out, but many can take it or leave it at this time of year. .

Season pass holders wait until August to ski do they ?

Last year Coronet Peak opened June 5th, 25 days of trading in June.

[southernthrash]

Hello all! The problem is that there has never been a "good" late season for snow ( in August for instance ) without it being built upon the snows from a good early season ( May to July ). When snow is sparse early on it never gets a great deal "better" as it were even if there are some fairly hefty falls in the later part of winter. You need a good build up of snow in the early months to hold the snow in later ones. This year has been incredible for its lack of snow. No one can remember anything quite like it. Unless some snow falls VERY soon, by the time any late season snow arrives it will already be too late.

Yes and no. Do you actually ski? 2003, 2005 and 2007 were all pretty abysmal seasons until the latter part of the season, when things turned around bigtime (well moreso in the Southern Lakes than Canterbury)

[southernthrash]

Most "local" ski enthusiasts tend to prefer spring to early winter in my experience. Yea it's good to blast the cobwebs out, but many can take it or leave it at this time of year. .

Season pass holders wait until August to ski do they ?

Last year Coronet Peak opened June 5th, 25 days of trading in June.

That's not what I said. I spent 14 of those 25 days June last year at Coronet Peak, the snow was great, the place was very quiet.

[Twizel Dave]

Yes and no. Do you actually ski? 2003, 2005 and 2007 were all pretty abysmal seasons until the latter part of the season, when things turned around bigtime (well moreso in the Southern Lakes than Canterbury)

Ah yes but there is one very big difference. In those years and all others we had snow on the ground several times by this time of the year. The snow was on the mountains by May even if it wasn't a great deal. But there was always some snow on the mountains by the shortest day of the year. Except this year! 2011 is unprecedented in that regard. We have had no snow falls at all on the ground and it is already the middle of June! By now we "should" have had several, even if not heavy falls. The mountains are completely bare of snow and that is unheard of for the 14th of June!

If the mountains get a few good layers of snow dropped on them before the end of the month then everything may come up smelling of roses, but it isn't looking very hopeful is it. No snow by mid June is hard to believe yet there we are.

[southernthrash]

It's not looking flash before the end of June, but the difference between the amount of natural snow now and the same time those years is a matter of centimetres.

[Twizel Dave]

Hardly!

Even previous "bad" years had some snow by May and quite a bit by July - certainly compared to this year which is one for the books as far as lack of snow goes. If any big falls happen later this winter they may very well be falling on bare rock and as I said that won't last long. For a decent long lasting snow base to form in later months there needs to be a decent base for that to form on already in existence and it doesn't exist. ( Not yet at any rate! )

To understand these things southernthrash, I recommend you talk to meteorologists or call your nearest farmer. They have the in depth knowledge and experience to explain it all to you clearly.

Well good night everyone!

Dave

[spwill]

I spent 14 of those 25 days June last year at Coronet Peak, the snow was great, the place was very quiet.

So you are one of the people they open the field in june for

The 2010 winter festival opened June 25th and attracted 30,000 vistors spending about $50M in the 10days apparently.

[southernthrash]

I go because I can, and last June was good snow wise. If the snow is good (it's usually not, it's normally pretty much only machine snow) winterfest is a great time to go skiing at Coronet Peak. Yes, there's a lot of people in town, but most of them *aren't* there to ski. I haven't missed winterfest week in the last 5 years (being a student is good!) and we are there just as much for the party, but when you have a season pass might as well head up the hill! As someone who can more or less pick and choose the days I ride, I don't bother with crowded days unless the snow is really good. You barely ever have to wait in line during winterfest, it's great. I won't make it this year because I'm heading to a conference in Melbourne for pretty much the same ten days, but not too worried as I guess I won't be missing too much, and the nightlife is just as good in Melbourne!

Dave, snow on warm rocks or dirt is bad at any time of year. Like I've previously said, the warm temps are the most immediately concerning thing, the lack of snow is becoming more of a concern. If it weren't for the warm temps, then the late arrival could actually ultimately be *good* for the snowpack, in allowing maximum cooling prior to accumulation. Snow itself is a fantastic insulator, so if it falls on warm/unfrozen ground, it melts pretty quickly from the ground up. If it falls on a cold/frozen surface, that surface temperature will remain colder for longer once the snow is there, and the snowpack will be sustained for longer. The ground won't cool well with the presence of snow. A lot of skifields actually try to get the ground fairly damp before the onset of cold weather and snow (usually with the snowmaking infrastructure), the damp ground eventually freezes and once the snow falls on it, it stays frozen longer. This helps to minimise the ground heat flux to the snow pack which in turn minimises melt out from the bottom.

Funnily enough, the climatologists I've discussed current conditions with so far aren't terribly worried (we note that it's unusual, the warmth in particular), and while I'm not a climatologist per se, I've got a fairly good handle on what's going on. This might upset you, but I find farmers are not the most reliable people to talk to about weather, especially snow. The tend to exaggerate it's presence (or lack of) more than skiers!

[melja]

I cant understand why you think its still normal to have no snow, even on the main alps half way into june.
Everyone up here thinks its very odd.

[spwill]

Funnily enough, the climatologists I've discussed current conditions with so far aren't terribly worried

Ask the staff at Coronet Peak,Snowfarm and Mt Hutt etc if they are worried.
The concern is not for the mid/late season but the early season

[southernthrash]

As much of a bummer as it is for the staff, the ones that are affected know prior to signing their contracts that this is a real possibility, it's part and parcel of seasonal snow work. Hell, it's happened in Coastal BC (one of the worlds top snow destinations) a couple of times in the last 5 years? Did you watch the Vancouver winter Olympics? That was BC mid season.. Innsbruck was even worse, but that's going back a while now, they had to helicopter snow in.

Things will really turn pear shaped for the ski areas if they aren't open for the school holidays.

melja, I'm not saying it's normal, I'm saying it isn't as unusual as people might at first think (the lack of snow that is, the warm temps persisting ARE). We probably wouldn't even be hearing about this if it was cold enough for snow making, it would just be another start to a fickle NZ ski season.

[03Stormchaser]

I think this may well be one of the most over rated threads ever on NZWF. To date we have 163 replies over 7 pages and the ski season hasn't even started! ...hate to think whats going to happen when it does!!

[Dean.]

Snow level forecast at 1200 metres on Sunday for the Canterbury high country

[spwill]

I think when the snow cover does finally arrive on our high country it will help bring temps nearer to normal, add to the chilling.

[Twizel Dave]

Good afternoon everyone! There is one thing I think bears repeating and that is the fact that the state of the mountains and the season really IS quite unprecedented. I am born and bred high country and have never known anything like this. People older even than myself who have been here longer still are also very surprised by conditions. Never has it been so snow-less and warm in this area and on the Alps and main Divide. Those of us telling you these things aren't simply making it up! Apparently Mr southernthrash believes that farmers are not to be trusted and know nothing about weather and local climates even though they have spent their entire lives in most cases out in that weather and climate but there is incalculable wisdom and experience that he is dismissing.

Hopefully Deano is right about snow on the way this weekend because the ski fields certainly need it very desperately. My wife can do without it though! She doesn't seem to mind the warmth and lack of snow at all.

[CHCH Weather Chaser]

I think that come Sunday when the flow turns around the a Southerly we will see colder air which should be cold enough for snow on the ski fields. Precipitation just needs to hold firm or grow around there. Best prospect in a while though it would seem.

[03Stormchaser]

Message from Hutt this afternoon:

Hi guys update so far on snowmaking! At this stage the weather has been too warm to make (surprise) but the forecast for tonight is temps dropping and changing to southerly so hoping we will go online late tonight. Our snowmakers are on mountain ready to hit the switch once temps allow! Sorry we are trying and at this stage we don't have a crystal ball... Cheers Team @ Hutt.

[Skywatcher]

One advantage the skifields have this year is the school holidays are two weeks later than usual (starting 16th July) because of the rugby world cup.

The downside is that the spring holidays are also later when a lot of fields have (usually) closed.

[mattyj46]

No really ski related but close enough, Weather has been way too warm to open up the Naseby Luge, was suppose to open Queens Birthday when it usually opens Queens Birthday but I feel I'll still be waiting a while,

A photo of their first snowfall last season:



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[tich]

Metservice long-range for Saturday predicts possible low level snow in inland South Island valleys on Saturday. (warm advection)

[tgsnoopy]

I think this may well be one of the most over rated threads ever on NZWF. To date we have 163 replies over 7 pages and the ski season hasn't even started! ...hate to think whats going to happen when it does!!

Where is the like button... Oh that's right

[Razor]

You've all been trolled, well and truly

[southernthrash]

Message from Hutt this afternoon:

Hi guys update so far on snowmaking! At this stage the weather has been too warm to make (surprise) but the forecast for tonight is temps dropping and changing to southerly so hoping we will go online late tonight. Our snowmakers are on mountain ready to hit the switch once temps allow! Sorry we are trying and at this stage we don't have a crystal ball... Cheers Team @ Hutt.

All eyes on remarkables then, they could edge in with a limited opening this weekend, I think that would make history!

matty have you hit the luge before? looks like a laugh!