The MetService Radar Monopoly

[Tornado Tim]

Found out some nice info about the Mamaku Radar.

Apparently its a Vaisala WRM200 Radar, the most expensive radar that Viasala makes.
More info in the PDF attached:

vn185_10_MeteorologicalServiceofNewZealandLimitedStrengthensWeatherWatch.pdf

Since its dual polarization (the most expensive radar) I find it extremely strange how M/S can justify getting the best radar there is and only provide the Composite reflectivity scan only to the public (and a 1 hour update).
Composite reflectivity is a scan that combines all the sweeps of the radar in a 8 min period and displays the highest echo (in dbz).

Yes it will be able to get more specific data about the structure and what is contained within the storm but that is completely useless if public cant see it.

I am sorry M/S but this has to said, you need to start releasing higher res more frequently updated radar images!
The Albany Tornado and New Plymouth Tornadoes proves this!

For goodness sake put the NZ public first and stop hiding behind the reason that the company needs to make a good profit.
Have a look here it proves my point: http://blog.metservice.com/2010/10/weather-radars/
Thats the thing, MS is a business and I understand that so it needs to make money but when it comes to something such as forecasting in the Meteorological department it should be a government department.
That way the Public can be rest assured that the people working there are working for the public and putting them first and not for the sake of profit.

--oh boy i sort have gone off topic, LOL---

Anyway I like how they have painted the radar green

[Razor]

I couldn't agree more. In these times of natural disasters being on everyones mind the Metservice should be hanging their heads in shame for compromising public access to such informtation

[Michael]

I doubt it will be free with "this mob" in power or anyone in the foreseeable future.

[Manukau heads obs]

that deadly high rain event in whakatane recently certainly showed up well prior to it actually making rainfall
I thought to myself whakatane is going to get hit hard

so you could say that if the public had access to up to date rain radars that could in theory do something about their own safety
thats something that I would go along with

[jamie]

talking to some MS staff the other day... won't name names. but they agreed its pretty pathetic what the public gets and even went as far as saying what people get on metconnect is well below what they get at the office. This was on the topic of rain radar images (resolution and times). Metconnect is good in that it gets 7min radars but the resolution is still piss poor on that.

[Nev]

The problem with access to the radars doesn't lie with MetService per se, but with govt policy. As a commercial operation, MetService are doing exactly what's expected of them. For any hope of changing the current situation, what you guys should be doing is lobbying the govt, or perhaps more specifically the Ministry of Transport's Steven Joyce.

[Philip Duncan]

Hi guys
WeatherWatch.co.nz has asked MetService to please explain their radar network. After refusul from them to tell us who pays for the radars and if there is any government funding involved - siting "commercial reasons" - I raised this with the Minister of State Owned Enterprise. This is Tony Ryall now. Mr Ryall then asked MetService to respond to me, which they did via him. MetService say they own the radars, not the tax payers. My arguement is that Land Transport make up 50% of MetService's revenue, not to mention the numerous other govt clients (Civil Defence, councils, DOC, etc), it's pretty weak to say MetService isn't a tax funded organisation. They very much have a monopoly in NZ and their ownership/control of the radar network is similar to Telecom's control of the copper wire network in the 90s and early 2000s - and we know how that disadvantated the public.

It seems many people at MetService and the Government agree this isn't good for the public, not allowing full access to radars - which clearly shows, to me, that it's profit before people in this area. One just has to ask why there has been no REAL competition to MetService since they were deregulated - and it always comes back to the radar network. I've spoken with the Commerce Commission too, who have told us several private forecasters have raised concerns about the expense of the radar network over recent years. WeatherWatch has challenged the cost of the radars even for us to display.

We are now working with some good people at MetService on pricing for WW to provide 7.5 minute updates on our website for the public. If the Govt won't pay the cost to provide this for the public, then I'm keen to find a way to do it.

Nev is right - lobby your local MP and point out the Albany Tornado and the recent New Plymouth tornado. I also find it odd that the radar was switched on for Christchurch for free after the February earthquake but not switched on for free in Northland and Auckland when Cyclone Wilma hit - costing 25 million dollars in damage and threatening lives with landslides and flooding. This is a SERIOUS public safety issue and I think it's wrong that New Zealand is the only western country in the world that operates in this manner. Not everything in life is about the bottom line, especially when it comes to public safety.

Phil

[bmo]

Well put!
I wonder if i should sent it to my local National (John Key) or Labour (Jeremy Greenbrook-Held)
But they should have gone free many years ago because with the one hour updated ones you kind of have to guess how fast the rain bands are moving and in which direction.
When i had a newspaper run a few years back i used the radars to find the best time to go as the street would be incredibly slippery when it rains and some streets will flood really easily as the storm drains are always blocked >:(
But than again money comes before human life. Doesn't it??

[jrj]

Before we get too carried away in the Blame Game, I think that it would be fair to say that only the handful of weather enthusiasts on this forum is busting to see better-than-hourly radar updates (including myself). The general public is not even aware of them beyond the nightly TV1 weather forecast, and probably wouldn't give a toss.

[jamie]

Before we get too carried away in the Blame Game, I think that it would be fair to say that only the handful of weather enthusiasts on this forum is busting to see better-than-hourly radar updates (including myself). The general public is not even aware of them beyond the nightly TV1 weather forecast, and probably wouldn't give a toss.

but is that because they have never had anything worth using? ie with up to date radar scans people might actually start using them

[Philip Duncan]

Before we get too carried away in the Blame Game, I think that it would be fair to say that only the handful of weather enthusiasts on this forum is busting to see better-than-hourly radar updates (including myself). The general public is not even aware of them beyond the nightly TV1 weather forecast, and probably wouldn't give a toss.

Accept your point James - and a blame game won't get us far, but you'd be surprised how many emails I get asking about this, from the everyday public - especially during severe weather events. You only have to visit America and Canada to see how huge the radars are for the everyday public, because they have always been made avaialable for free.

[jrj]

Agreed. But, I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'm just so pleased to have the Mahia radar.

[Manukau heads obs]

and that begs the question
would we have the new radars if they were provided for free (i.e fully govt funded)

[Philip Duncan]

Well considering its the govt contracts thats created the revenue to buy them, then I'd say yes.

[NZ Thunderstorm Soc]

Why put a free access to radar in Christchurch when the weather has been so boring and non-eventful, whereas the other parts of the country New Plymouth and Auckland have have had horrendous weather, especially with lessoning of the La Nina weather system .

JohnGaul
NZThS

[Richard]

Interesting topic been raised here, thanks Tornado Tim , i'm with Philip here in that given that its govt contracts thats created the revenue to buy them for a start and it should be available free for the general public.

[Richard]

Why put a free access to radar in Christchurch when the weather has been so boring and non-eventful, whereas the other parts of the country New Plymouth and Auckland have have had horrendous weather, especially with lessoning of the La Nina weather system .

JohnGaul
NZThS

yer but you cant pick and choose which areas John,its all or nothing

[Razor]

Yet if you have sky you can get 15 min updates on the main centre radars. There is no rhyme nor logic to this. Open it up for all!

[Twizel Dave]

Hello! How fascinating these things are. Did the taxpayer directly fund this equipment or was it paid for with revenue earned by the Met service?

As long as it is only amateur weather enthusiasts demanding free access for every one to the Radar images then the government will probably ignore us. What is needed is a professional weather organisation in competition with the Met service to enter the fray. Are there any of those? Is NIWA a Met service competitor? Whatever happened to a group called Blue Sky? It rather seems that the Met service have the professional weather scene all to themselves.

[snowstormwatcher]

When is metservice going to build new radars in areas that get poor or no rain radar coverage? Eg Dunedin,West coast. Personally I think that is more important that 15min updates. Although 15min updates would be nice.

[Manukau heads obs]

west coast rain radar is coming up on the list I think..maybe next year?
remember these things are a cool million a pop....

[jamie]

When is metservice going to build new radars in areas that get poor or no rain radar coverage? Eg Dunedin,West coast. Personally I think that is more important that 15min updates. Although 15min updates would be nice.

west coast is next i believe... 2013 if my memory is correct

[NZstorm]

The Met Service is 100% the property of the New Zealand public, so following the money go round to decide ownership is not necessary.

[tgsnoopy]

Next up is Northland, soon if what I was told is true. Westland has not been confirmed, won't be till next year at the earliest.

Sorry guys. International flights are playing a part in the decision process, more of them over Northland than Westland.

[bmo]

I think that if we want to see this we should ask someone with a account for their login very nicely and than we can all see it!
Or we could just spam Metservice till they get sick of us....