MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

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cantygal
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MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by cantygal »

Not sure where the jury stands on this one below...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10 ... atherWatch
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by David »

I'm sort of glad I never chose to become a MS meterologist now (was a possibility in my mind when I was 16 or so). I do think Metservice should make more of their data free for others, but just read the comments on WW's facebook. So many people attacking Metservice and their meteorologists as being completely useless and so on, and WW themselves even likes (thumbs up) some of those comments...
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Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Are ww not allowed to like these comments? I think if tax payers dollars are paying for weather stations, rain radars, lightning trackers etc then it should all be made public.
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Unread post by David »

03Stormchaser wrote:Are ww not allowed to like these comments? I think if tax payers dollars are paying for weather stations, rain radars, lightning trackers etc then it should all be made public.
I was only referring to comments that insult/attack Metservice forecasters rather than their policies. I had another look and I see they aren't liking most of the nasty comments which is good - only skimmed through earlier so didn't look carefully enough. I think it would be unprofessional for them to like such comments and it wouldn't do much to help their cause.
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Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Do have to carefully how you appear to the general public when pushing with an agenda like this toward MS. There responses on Facebook don't make them look very good at times, JB who ever that is seems to be doing all the talking on there.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

Hmmmm, I agree that more data should be available to the Public via Metservice, but WeatherWatch should understand that Metservice doesn't really have a choice here, attacking them directly will achieve absolutely nothing.

Metservice is still restricted to this day when sale of assets was done in 1987 where Metservice became an SOE. This wasn't voluntary, Metservice had to tow the line and change the way it operated. And that meant all data had to be paid for.
If Metservice gave everything away they wouldn't make any money, they wouldnt even be able to continue to operate and provide a Weather Service for us.

One could argue that since Metservice gets soo much cash via advertising that it could dish out more high res data for free, however coming from Metservice's point of view that would undercut the Market that they already have via Metconnect.
Which would reduce profits etc....

WeatherWatch itself is a business too, which is to make money as well. There would be more of an argument if it was a non-profit organisation.

The point of this, dont attack Metservice as this will achieve nothing at all, this problem can only be fixed by political schema.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by TonyT »

You make some good points Tim, but I cant let this one go:
Tornado Tim wrote:If Metservice gave everything away they wouldn't make any money, they wouldnt even be able to continue to operate and provide a Weather Service for us.
Metservice gets a large sum of money (I would hazard a guess around $16M a year) from the government in the form of a public contract to supply a basic public weather and warning service. So even if all its commercial operations ceased, it would still exist and operate. Or at least, the government would still fund an entity to provide those services.

As far as I know, the government contract for weather services has never been put out to tender, so the government has no idea how realistic the current price (whatever it is) might be.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by cantygal »

I'm with you on that one Tony and wish the Govt contract would go up for tender and then a real battle could be on between providers possibly.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

TonyT wrote:Metservice gets a large sum of money (I would hazard a guess around $16M a year) from the government in the form of a public contract to supply a basic public weather and warning service. So even if all its commercial operations ceased, it would still exist and operate. Or at least, the government would still fund an entity to provide those services
The Miinistry of Transport contract I dont think would be enough to sustain Metservice, at least in its current form anyway. Or in a way that it can expand or have the potential to give more additional data for free (if operated as an SOE). For example new Dual Pol radars wouldnt be able to be funded under this contract alone.
The contract specifically outlines what services that need to be provided to the Public free of charge, unfortunately when I contacted Tony Ryall, it seems there is not enough money negotiated for the Metservice to offer any more free services under the MOT contract.

The additional Radar Images and other relatively new data in the Metservice Website such as the BOP and Chch 100km radar images have been funded within Metservice, the money hasn't come from the MOT contract.
There is an argument to give more data away for free but to what expense will this actually cause now and in the future for Metservice.

In order to fix this issue, people need to contact to Ministry of Transport and get them to add more $$ in the MOT Metservice Contract, so that an additional services such as High Res Radar Images, Dopplar Velocity and other Meteorlogical sets of data can be given freely away to the Public.
Either that
OR
Become a politician or have significant influence on a politician to revert Metservice to a governmental department.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by melja »

I have no problem with more data being made available to jo public but in no way should our tax payer funded data be given free to other profit making companies.
You have got to be kidding if you think i or any other tax payer should help prop up a private company, thats a subsidy.
Do private power companies get free access to the water that SOE power company use to make power and money? No they dont.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by NZstorm »

The issue needs to be sorted out at Government level but I can't see that ever happening, even if there is a change of government.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Tornado Tim »

03Stormchaser wrote:MS reply on there blog:
http://blog.metservice.com/2014/08/publ ... le-to-all/
Steve, You crack me up....... I don't think that request you posted on FB will get a reply. :lol:

You can tell that Jacqui Bridges is getting fed up of the particular person behind WeatherWatch.
Her reply in the Blog post is quite right, Metservice does have the right to charge another business if they want to make money off the data they provide them.
The BOM do this where they have a "Mixed model" approach, businesses pay to display the data, if they were in Australia, they would have to do the same thing.

The only Weather Organisation that I am aware of that gives everything out for free is NOAA/NWS.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Tornado Tim wrote: Steve, You crack me up....... I don't think that request you posted on FB will get a reply. :lol:
Its worth a shot isn't it? I'm non for profit lol
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by spwill »

Tornado Tim wrote: Metservice does have the right to charge another business if they want to make money off the data they provide them.
.
According to Weatherwatch, Metservice in 2011 lifted the price to Weatherwatch for reporting the daily highs from $1200 a year to $28,000 a year.
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Unread post by 03Stormchaser »

Seeing as CWU is now a company I wonder what they have to pay?
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by NZstorm »

spwill wrote:
Tornado Tim wrote: Metservice does have the right to charge another business if they want to make money off the data they provide them.
.
According to Weatherwatch, Metservice in 2011 lifted the price to Weatherwatch for reporting the daily highs from $1200 a year to $28,000 a year.

That type of information should be freely available.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by NZ Thunderstorm Soc »

NZstorm wrote:


That type of information should be freely available.
It is if you watch the 6:20-ish weather section on the TV One news :>
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Bradley »

Metservice is a joke in terms of what free weather information it gives out to the public even compared to a poorly run organisation like the BOM - that says it all really!! Even NOAA isn't as greedy as the metservice!!
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by jamie »

This was my response to Metservice on facebook when they advertised their blog in response to WW's demands/requests.

Why can't you display past weather like weatherzone does for the ausie data? Surely that doesn't loose you revenue? We get hourly or three hourly live. But we can't go back and see what happened. Unless you dive into NIWA cliflo which are not all the same stations that you use.

Secondly, i find It strange you can justify 120km radar on two radars but none of the others. A full and fair explanation of why this is the case would be good.

Thirdly. I, like many others use the good will of NZ'ers that display their private stations online. Some are good but others are poor. By restricting the publics access to what is partially theirs your encouraging people to look at private nz stations that are not always accurate and safe to rely on. This could one day put people in danger.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Bradley »

Some good points there Jamie, not that the Metservice will take any of these valid points on board, they run their own race and care little of public opinion (unless of course that opinion has the potential to affect their all important revenue stream, then they might listen - a very sad state of affairs).
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by spwill »

Most NZs will only be interested in a simple weather forecast and any warnings from Metservice.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by BeaconHill »

My 2 cents worth: Additional things that "Joe Public" in NZ could be most interested in seeing that are not currently available:
1 - Real time, hi-resolution rain radar imagery ("when do I need to get my washing in" information)
2 - Real time lightning strike information ("should we call this round of golf quits RIGHT NOW?" information)

The former is only a slight extension of the data available now on the MS site. The latter to me is an example of providing better information for the safety of the public that does not need a lot of "expert knowledge" to interpret, and could easily be overlaid onto the Rain Radar images (like the images MS often share on Twitter etc now as a front approaches Auckland).

I am sure many on this forum, and other "commercial companies" would love to get free access to other more detailed information, but agree with the comments that for most of the public, they do not care for that level of detail.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by Dale »

spwill wrote:Most NZs will only be interested in a simple weather forecast and any warnings from Metservice.
Bingo.
The majority of the population here, as I have found out from putting myself, MS and WW out there blindly, couldn't give a **** what's going on except for today or tomorrow.
Only ones seem to be kicking up a stink are the hoohaa gun forecasters whom want greater access to freely available data, if you know where to find it.. instead of having to fork out bucks.

This is really a sad debate which has been going around in circles for a long time.
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Re: MetService-What do you think of the latest saga?

Unread post by NZ Thunderstorm Soc »

I have wondered, if there is more than a forecast that people would like, rather than a "Short" forecast?
Instead of just saying "Fine", maybe " Fine with some light winds and maybe the odd cloud or too, and maybe there maybe some cirrus cloud overhead later in the day" for example???
Do MetService have a "Long" forecast for the days weather?
Probably not. :-(
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