White Island.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Tue 17/12/2019 09:56

There's no way cruise ships should have been sending people there. I'll bet the passengers had little idea of the potential danger, and the lawyers could be rubbing their hands in anticipation of hefty lawsuits.

Nev · Unread post by **Nev** » Tue 17/12/2019 10:25

This little graphic shows both GeoNet's and the USGS's recent epicentres along with their margins of error...

White Island Earthquakes.png

03Stormchaser · Unread post by **03Stormchaser** » Tue 17/12/2019 12:10

RWood wrote:There's no way cruise ships should have been sending people there. I'll bet the passengers had little idea of the potential danger, and the lawyers could be rubbing their hands in anticipation of hefty lawsuits.

Why not? From what I've read everyone who visits knew the very real danger

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Tue 17/12/2019 16:17

Sunlive is running a poll to see if people think tours should be allowed to continue...
http://www.sunlive.co.nz

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Tue 17/12/2019 17:12

03Stormchaser wrote: ↑Tue 17/12/2019 12:10
RWood wrote:There's no way cruise ships should have been sending people there. I'll bet the passengers had little idea of the potential danger, and the lawyers could be rubbing their hands in anticipation of hefty lawsuits.
Why not? From what I've read everyone who visits knew the very real danger

I seriously doubt that, especially in the case of cruise ship visitors.

03Stormchaser · Unread post by **03Stormchaser** » Tue 17/12/2019 21:04

RWood wrote: ↑Tue 17/12/2019 17:12
03Stormchaser wrote: ↑Tue 17/12/2019 12:10 Why not? From what I've read everyone who visits knew the very real danger
I seriously doubt that, especially in the case of cruise ship visitors.

Royal Caribbean has removed the White Island/Whakaari shore excursion page from its website but a cached version shows that it did not include any warnings about potential hazards on what it dubbed "one of the most active volcanoes in the world"

Royal Caribbean would not say what companies it used for the on shore excursions. In the third to last sentence of its shore excursions brochure for New Zealand and Australia it said it had "no responsibility for the performance of the shore excursions herein specified

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... passengers

If true, that is terrible. Surely the company operating the heli tour would have advised the customers or maybe presumed Royal Caribbean had?

Sunlive is running a poll to see if people think tours should be allowed to continue..

Neil I cant see that poll? No need for tours to stop imho

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Wed 18/12/2019 06:44

03Stormchaser wrote: ↑Tue 17/12/2019 21:04
tgsnoopy wrote: ↑Tue 17/12/2019 16:17 Sunlive is running a poll to see if people think tours should be allowed to continue...
http://www.sunlive.co.nz
Neil I cant see that poll? No need for tours to stop imho

On the RHS 4th item down.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Wed 18/12/2019 07:44

Govt may buy out the owners of the island. It's ridiculous to push adventure tourism to such extremes. Shipping line will face massive lawsuits.

jamie · Unread post by **jamie** » Wed 18/12/2019 07:55

RWood wrote:Govt may buy out the owners of the island. It's ridiculous to push adventure tourism to such extremes. Shipping line will face massive lawsuits.

Disagree. It’s been on my bucket list to do for years and I was planning on doing it this summer. I would not have gone with alert at level 2 but I have some tertiary education on geology so I have a small understanding of it all.

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Orion · Unread post by **Orion** » Wed 18/12/2019 07:55

I had assumed that tourists might have visited the island by boat keeping a respectful distance from the shore: I never dreamed they would actually walk in there in leisure clothes and footwear.

While the risk may vary, the hazard was extreme and the consequences, as we have so sadly seen, calamitous.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Wed 18/12/2019 10:02

jamie wrote: ↑Wed 18/12/2019 07:55
RWood wrote:Govt may buy out the owners of the island. It's ridiculous to push adventure tourism to such extremes. Shipping line will face massive lawsuits.
Disagree. It’s been on my bucket list to do for years and I was planning on doing it this summer. I would not have gone with alert at level 2 but I have some tertiary education on geology so I have a small understanding of it all.

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You can take your own risks. Even if the island stays in private ownership I predict there will be a major tightening up. Orion makes a good point about hazard - simple commonsense says that it should be sufficient for all but the greedy to be close enough to see things without risking a horrible fate. The lives of most of the survivors of this disaster will be ruined.

Willoughby · Unread post by **Willoughby** » Wed 18/12/2019 13:04

Dad took us over in 2007 and it was a pretty awesome experience. I can't remember the alert level back then but there wasn't that much steam.
You sign waivers and you know the risks, especially once you get there seeing the old sulphur mine being totally destroyed near the jetty as you get off the boat.

I think having tours there at alert level two is a bit reckless though.

Here are some pics

image.png

Wonder how much HCI from the lake impacted the tourists, I shudder to think

image.png

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Wed 18/12/2019 20:45

Willoughby wrote: ↑Wed 18/12/2019 13:04 Dad took us over in 2007 and it was a pretty awesome experience. I can't remember the alert level back then but there wasn't that much steam.
You sign waivers and you know the risks, especially once you get there seeing the old sulphur mine being totally destroyed near the jetty as you get off the boat.

I think having tours there at alert level two is a bit reckless though.

Wonder how much HCI from the lake impacted the tourists, I shudder to think
image.png

Peter and Jenny Tait from PJ Tours in those days (this is from memory, last contact I had with them was in 2004 when I resolved some ongoing issues with PJ5 launch for them, it some 8 or 9 years later caught fire & sunk) used to contact their bookings if the alert level went up from 1. I don't recall if they stopped landing and just cruised the island or stopped tours altogether. 99% sure they wouldn't land above level 1.

in this case I understand the very high Hydrogen Sulphide content of the eruption gases rendered the casualties unconscious and they were then critically/fatally burnt by the extremely hot falling volcanic ash. Apparently a couple of minutes before the eruption one of the guides called the situation and called for an immediate evacuation of guests from the island. Unfortunately they didn't have time and the tragedy ensued.

I agree with Willoughby. In my experience there was very good information provided and you had to in my case watch a video, then were given a question/answers scenario before being asked to sign the disclaimer/waiver or whatever before you could land on the island.

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Thu 19/12/2019 05:53

I see low level tremor on the crater trace (still 3k scale), summit scale back up to 100k again. Raoul Island has seen a lot on it's trace overnight.

RWood · Unread post by **RWood** » Thu 19/12/2019 09:54

Willoughby wrote: ↑Wed 18/12/2019 13:04
Wonder how much HCI from the lake impacted the tourists, I shudder to think

The injuries are absolutely horrendous. One badly burnt Sydney teenager faces the horror of waking up to the news his entire immediate family is gone, which is awful enough, but so many survivors face a bleak future.

Richard · Unread post by **Richard** » Thu 19/12/2019 12:45

RWood wrote: ↑Thu 19/12/2019 09:54

The injuries are absolutely horrendous. One badly burnt Sydney teenager faces the horror of waking up to the news his entire immediate family is gone, which is awful enough, but so many survivors face a bleak future.

That is such sad news to hear

Cyclone Tracy · Unread post by **Cyclone Tracy** » Fri 20/12/2019 14:26

Observational data has been included in today's GeoNet summary highlighting how volatile it still is, even without the enhanced volcanic tremor.

"An observation flight yesterday afternoon (Thursday 19th), confirmed open steam and gas vents, one of which is discharging at more than 650 °C. This data confirms our previous interpretations that shallow magma is below the vent area. No magma or lava was seen".

David · Unread post by **David** » Sun 22/12/2019 20:08

Strange that the Geonet White Island monitoring page now is returning 404. Can't see drums or anything

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Sun 22/12/2019 20:17

I see what you mean.
Looks like an increase in steam output:
https://www.geonet.org.nz/volcano/cameras/whakatane
Drums not too bad
https://www.geonet.org.nz/volcano/drums

David · Unread post by **David** » Sun 22/12/2019 20:30

It's back now. Temporarily glitch I guess.

Cyclone Tracy · Unread post by **Cyclone Tracy** » Mon 23/12/2019 13:55

Whakaari showing a little increase in tremor activity and steam in the last 4 hours. Nearby shallow M2.2 at 1pm also.

Whakaari 231219.jpg

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Mon 23/12/2019 15:03

Looks like an increase in steam output on the webcam to me.

https://www.geonet.org.nz/volcano/cameras/whakatane

Latest update:

https://www.geonet.org.nz/vabs/7zLcgAs9mYVb104coMiWew

Cyclone Tracy · Unread post by **Cyclone Tracy** » Thu 26/12/2019 15:10

A new phase of increased volcanic tremor has kicked off in the last 2 hours.

Whakaari 26122019.jpg

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Thu 09/01/2020 07:07

I see the tremor came up again for a while, settled down, then came back up again and is still up.

Cyclone Tracy · Unread post by **Cyclone Tracy** » Thu 09/01/2020 08:10

2nd round of elevated volcanic tremor in the last 24 hours. This phase is now 4 hours in and stronger than yesterday's.

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