Lightning Station

Nelson_storm · Unread post by **Nelson_storm** » Sat 11/02/2006 09:28

Hello there - I know this is proboally a bit off-topic but i am wanting to set up a Lightning Detector in Nelson as most of your Lightning Detectors dont pick up 90% of the strikes here (We had a Beut the other night - All fork Lightning - But no dots on the Lightning Detectors) it may be the hills - I dont know. Could you please explain how much a setup like this will cost?

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sat 11/02/2006 09:34

Nelson_storm wrote:Hello there - I know this is proboally a bit off-topic but i am wanting to set up a Lightning Detector in Nelson as most of your Lightning Detectors dont pick up 90% of the strikes here (We had a Beut the other night - All fork Lightning - But no dots on the Lightning Detectors) it may be the hills - I dont know. Could you please explain how much a setup like this will cost?

http://www.boltek.com/

Nelson_storm · Unread post by **Nelson_storm** » Sat 11/02/2006 09:40

I better get saving then

Skywatcher · Unread post by **Skywatcher** » Sat 11/02/2006 10:19

At today's exchange rate you'd probably get the Boltek Stormtracker into the country for $900 direct from Boltek. You might be able to get a better price (about $150 less ?) somewhere else e.g. http://www.ambientweather.com/bolideha.html

I made my own and the Auckland background maps using TUMONZ so you wouldn't need those.

You need 3rd party software and most folk get Astrogenic NexStorm which is about another $220 from http://www.meteorologica.co.uk

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sat 11/02/2006 10:34

Steven Graham wrote:I made my own and the Auckland background maps...

Steven, does your lightning tracker have a PC interface, and if so have you any HOWTOs online?

Skywatcher · Unread post by **Skywatcher** » Sat 11/02/2006 10:55

Gary Roberts wrote:
Steven Graham wrote:I made my own and the Auckland background maps...
Steven, does your lightning tracker have a PC interface, and if so have you any HOWTOs online?

..... Gary, it was just the background maps that I made myself - I have a Boltek PCI tracker.

I'd like to make a simple direction only tracker that I can triangulate with the home station while I'm mobile .... when I have the time

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sat 11/02/2006 11:41

Steven Graham wrote: ..... Gary, it was just the background maps that I made myself - I have a Boltek PCI tracker.

I'd like to make a simple direction only tracker that I can triangulate with the home station while I'm mobile .... when I have the time

Ah, okay, I misunderstood...Dang, I thought you may have modded one of the homebuilt designs to interface with a computer, and I was going to pick your brains about it!

Nelson_storm · Unread post by **Nelson_storm** » Sat 11/02/2006 13:18

Thanks for that steeve. I might get into it - I work at a Electronics Repairs Shop - I may be-able to buld my own - I already have a USB GPS Reciever. Is there a option where you can plug a AM radio up to your Soundcard - Have a Direntional Arial on the roof + the GPS and then use some kind of software on your computer to detect them?

jeffsweather · Unread post by **jeffsweather** » Sat 11/02/2006 13:39

Nelson_storm wrote:Thanks for that steeve. I might get into it - I work at a Electronics Repairs Shop - I may be-able to buld my own - I already have a USB GPS Reciever. Is there a option where you can plug a AM radio up to your Soundcard - Have a Direntional Arial on the roof + the GPS and then use some kind of software on your computer to detect them?

Here is a link to a project for a home built lightning detector. I liiks like you'd need a least 1 possibly 2 others interested in NZ to make it work.

http://members.home.nl/fkooiman/lightning/

Manukau heads obs · Sat 11/02/2006 19:58

i am game
looks very interesting!

ricky · Unread post by **ricky** » Sat 11/02/2006 20:26

Yes a network of cheap direction only stations could work really well!

The biggest difficulty seems to be differentiating real lightning from other local noise, but with correlation/triangulation that would cease to be as much of a problem I imagine..
I like the idea of the soundcard capture too!, I wonder how ferrites would compare to the orthogonal open loops?

Nelson_storm · Unread post by **Nelson_storm** » Sat 11/02/2006 20:40

Well thats me - Im going to make one

I just need somebody who lives around nelson who will set one up also

Manukau heads obs · Sat 11/02/2006 21:01

you actualy want big distances between people with them, yes?

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sat 11/02/2006 21:18

Nelson_storm wrote:Well thats me - Im going to make one I just need somebody who lives around nelson who will set one up also

I could just about see your house from the top of Benmore...

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Sun 12/02/2006 08:35

ricky wrote:I wonder how ferrites would compare to the orthogonal open loops?

You need to use the loops. Ferrites would only pick up the short range stuff.

You may be too young to remember when the races first went from the National Program to Radio Pacific, before the TAB paid Radio Pacific to establish it's FM station network.

The loop style attennas were in demand from all the racing types to improve their Radio Pacific AM reception so they could listen to the races.

I look at those aerials and think, Where the heck could I mount them? You'll notice in the photo's they appear to be mounted under polystyrene panels, nothing metallic.

I constantly groan when thinking of all the cool things I'd like to have running and the pile of computers it would take to do so... Then the cost of the electricity to do so, both on my bank balance and our environment.

That said, I'm considering building one to use during appropriate weather conditions.

ricky · Unread post by **ricky** » Sun 12/02/2006 09:17

Non metallic roofing seems to be a lot more common elsewhere in the world..
Loops don't look too bad in pvc pipe and fittings.. I made a couple for broadcast stations a long time ago... cheapish and easy

That software should make it really easy to experiment with antennas

We know something smaller is possible as Boltek do it in about an 80 sq cm box!
I heard that someone had tried using hall effect devices without success.. i imagine there was too much self generated noise
Time to start experimenting anyway!

I know what you mean about too many devices running.. lol our load keeps going up and up here at home, its about 1.4kw base load now!
Free bsd machine-firewall/server, several switches/adsl modems, weather PC, media PC... + usually at least one flatmates PC downloading or running something and then the loss of several UPS's

tgsnoopy · Unread post by **tgsnoopy** » Sun 12/02/2006 10:07

Those loops are resonant at 10kHz to allow an audio frequency output into the soundcard of a PC.

Boltek most likely use a higher frequency, subsequently the aerials could be smaller. The 10kHz aerials could be quite a bit more sensitive than the Boltek unit.

I'm tempted to try a unit running at a higher frequency and use a pair of standard superhetrodyne receivers (with common local oscillator) outputing at a second IF of 10kHz to use that software.

I just need more hours in the days.

ricky · Unread post by **ricky** » Sun 12/02/2006 11:00

lol know what you mean about the hours!
Still for a real network I can find some!!

Well i think a big crossed loop would look great on the roof with everything else anyway

If you look at the frequency domain plots of the lightning receivers at http://webflash.ess.washington.edu/ it looks like around 10kHz is a very good audio band choice to avoid most fixed carriers and be very sensitive to lightnig discharge.. hmm yes downconversion could be worth a try for smaller antennas, but very wideband is the way i think to capture as much energy as possible, i wonder what analysis that software does.. anything in the frequency domain?
The boltek is pretty broadband with a huge amount of gain.. there is lots of AM BC on the feed! mostly from the e field antenna though..
Its also incredibly sensitive to distant, 1200km + and weak lightning, that i can't pick up on any other reciever here..
It's great so many people are interested in building receivers!

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sun 12/02/2006 11:47

ricky wrote:It's great so many people are interested in building receivers!

We've held off buying a Boltek unit for budgetary reasons, but could be very keen to get a homebuilt model up on the mountain...I'm guessing we'll get some good coverage from 1,900m elevation.

Manukau heads obs · Sun 12/02/2006 13:00

ricky, do you think we are far enough apart to give some triangulation?
i.e make 2, LOL

Nelson_storm · Unread post by **Nelson_storm** » Sun 12/02/2006 14:58

That would make it quite useless here then - We have 2 Large Sheds Either side of our house.. + No where enough Clearence to mount the attenas. - So i may have to get my buddies together who live out on large hills... What do you men you can see my House Garry Roberts? That is reallllly scary

I used to have a fulltime server running here - If you just have onboard graphics - Nothing expect the essential then it is allright on Power - it is just like running a 50-100w Lightbulb 24/7 - In saying that - My AMD64 Monster is only drawing 300w (thats with the screen, Surround sound - and all the other jargon..)

Gary Roberts · Unread post by **Gary Roberts** » Sun 12/02/2006 15:48

Nelson_storm wrote:What do you men you can see my House Garry Roberts? That is reallllly scary

No need to panic...it just seems as if from Benmore Peak I could almost see all the way to Nelson on a clear day.

I used to have a fulltime server running here - If you just have onboard graphics - Nothing expect the essential then it is allright on Power - it is just like running a 50-100w Lightbulb 24/7 - In saying that - My AMD64 Monster is only drawing 300w (thats with the screen, Surround sound - and all the other jargon..)

Depends on what you are doing with the server...if it's merely serving files in a SOHO environment you don't need SMP or SAN/RAID and other energy hogging guff...heck, you don't even need a monitor, so long as it's stable. Most of our servers are headless, and a few of them, such as the OpenBSD-based firewall/gateway box, don't even have user input devices attached!

The weather station servers are mini-ITX systems running 533 MHz Eden CPUs, with 1 GB memory and a 2.5" drive. They run off 12V battery banks, and peak at 1.2 Amps (that's when the WiFi cards transmit)...most of the time they draw around 900 mA.

Chuck your antenna on top of a tower and hang a server like the above off it and you'll be good to go!

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